Why an alcohol limit on beer? (Moab: sales, to buy, living)

[Lupulin]

I've been to Utah many times, and I may relocate there one day, but I'll never understand the oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws in the state. I know, some alcohol-hating mormons control the government, liquor board, legislature and all (please correct me if I'm wrong), but the pathetically low beer limits, specifically, make no sense. You can drink liquor (40%) and wine (12-15%), but you can't have beer on draft that's over 3.2% ABW (or 4% ABV). (And "heavy" beer in gov-run liquor stores is marked up insanely high.)

There are more than 70 styles of beer. And I would venture to say that more than 80 or 90 percent of them are styles that tend to have alcohol percentages greater than that pathetically low limit in Utah. There's a whole spectrum of flavors that's being neglected here. Why?

"3.2" beer is basically American Light Lagers, Mild Ales, light brown ales, some American-style Wheats, etc. OK styles, when done right, but very limiting and repressed when it comes to excitement on the palate. Many Utah beers that I've had that deviate from these styles (like pale ales, porters, IPAs ...) are just bland, watery versions of the true style. BORING!

It's not all about alcohol. Malts are severely depressed as well. And 3.2 beers have no mouthfeel. Great "lawnmower" beers, but nothing to truly enjoy or savor.

So what gives? Can anyone explain/justify this law? Do mormons really think that "heavy" or high-alcohol beers will cause citizens to completely lose control? Are they trying to control themselves by setting this limit? Do they not understand that it's not all about alcohol, that flavor and complexity are sought after as well?

For most beer lovers, it's NOT just about getting effed up. And for those that do just want to get effed up, they don't go for the expensive/complex craft beers ... they just go for the cheap macros in mass quantity ... or the cheap high-alcohol beers.

[jdinchak]

I agree, it is nutty. I moved here last year from AZ where you can get anything anywhere. I can see having a liquor store for the hard stuff but I love wine and beer and I feel the better stuff is oppressed. I want to be able to go to a wine shop, taste and buy or buy my favorite beers in a grocery store at full strength. I can't even find the beers I enjoy at the liquor store. I guess it is good for me that relatives live close and can bring me my favorites or that NV and WY are so close.

Drives me nuts but I knew it moving here. Can't control every aspect of everyone's life. People have to make their own choices and if you have seen the lines at the liquor store they are speaking. I guess they enjoy the added revenue (which is better then the speed cameras everywhere in AZ).

[cinnabon]

Originally Posted by Lupulin

So what gives? Can anyone explain/justify this law? Do mormons really think that "heavy" or high-alcohol beers will cause citizens to completely lose control? Are they trying to control themselves by setting this limit? Do they not understand that it's not all about alcohol, that flavor and complexity are sought after as well?

For most beer lovers, it's NOT just about getting effed up. And for those that do just want to get effed up, they don't go for the expensive/complex craft beers ... they just go for the cheap macros in mass quantity ... or the cheap high-alcohol beers.

They are not trying to limit themselves - they do not drink at all and most think all drinking is bad. I think there is a perception that drinking is always about getting wasted, and the concept of social drinking and enjoying good beer or fine wine is just lost on them. Lucky for me, I like Corona!

[Lupulin]

cinnabon, you got me thinking when you said, "They are not trying to limit themselves - they do not drink at all and most think all drinking is bad." And you make a good point about the "social drinking and enjoying good beer or fine wine." Some views on beer and beer drinkers are so skewed.

Everyone, let's have some fun with numbers, shall we?!

Recently read: In the 2008 fiscal year -- July 1, 2007, to June 30, 2008 -- sales at state liquor stores totaled $256.6 million, an 11.8 percent increase from the previous year. (Standard-Examiner).

Roughly 2.5 million people in Utah.

Assuming 60% of Utahns are Mormon (various sources), and Mormons don't drink, then that leaves 100,000 people.

According to city-data (2000), 32.2% are under 18 years of age. Not sure how many are between 18-21, so let's conservatively say 35% are under 21. So now we're left with 65,000 people.

Not all people drink. I have no idea about this stat, so let me make another very conservative guess and say that 90% of those 65,000 people drink at least a little. So we have 58,500 drinkers in Utah drinking $256.6 million in booze?! That's an average of $4,386 per year, per person! I'm not the greatest at math, but I think I got those numbers right.

Now, I know what you're thinking ... What about the tourists from other states? Some of them drink while in Utah.

Okay, so 17 million people visit Utah each year (utah.gov). Divide that number by 365 days, essentially making those tourists like residents, and you get 46,575. Not all of them drink and they're not all of legal age, so you'd have to round down quite a bit. But even after adding tourists into the mix, the numbers still seem high. And I won't even get into that 11.8% increase from the previous year ...

Also keep in mind, many Utahns go to bordering states to buy beer, which would inflate beer sales for these drinking Utahns even more. Plus, some "tourists," like myself, bring their own beer when they visit Utah. Last time I went to Moab I brought at least a couple cases of "heavy" beer from Colorado. Didn't buy any beer on my visit, other than a watery pint at a bar.

So I guess I have to deduce one of two things: Either the non-Mormon Utahns are a bunch of lushes or there are quite a few Mormons out there that secretly drink behind closed doors. Or maybe a bit of both, I suppose.

Or is there something else that I'm missing here?

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by Lupulin

cinnabon, you got me thinking when you said, "They are not trying to limit themselves - they do not drink at all and most think all drinking is bad." And you make a good point about the "social drinking and enjoying good beer or fine wine." Some views on beer and beer drinkers are so skewed.

Everyone, let's have some fun with numbers, shall we?!

Recently read: In the 2008 fiscal year -- July 1, 2007, to June 30, 2008 -- sales at state liquor stores totaled $256.6 million, an 11.8 percent increase from the previous year. (Standard-Examiner).

Roughly 2.5 million people in Utah.

Assuming 60% of Utahns are Mormon (various sources), and Mormons don't drink, then that leaves 100,000 people.

According to city-data (2000), 32.2% are under 18 years of age. Not sure how many are between 18-21, so let's conservatively say 35% are under 21. So now we're left with 65,000 people.

Not all people drink. I have no idea about this stat, so let me make another very conservative guess and say that 90% of those 65,000 people drink at least a little. So we have 58,500 drinkers in Utah drinking $256.6 million in booze?! That's an average of $4,386 per year, per person! I'm not the greatest at math, but I think I got those numbers right.

Now, I know what you're thinking ... What about the tourists from other states? Some of them drink while in Utah.

Okay, so 17 million people visit Utah each year (utah.gov). Divide that number by 365 days, essentially making those tourists like residents, and you get 46,575. Not all of them drink and they're not all of legal age, so you'd have to round down quite a bit. But even after adding tourists into the mix, the numbers still seem high. And I won't even get into that 11.8% increase from the previous year ...

Also keep in mind, many Utahns go to bordering states to buy beer, which would inflate beer sales for these drinking Utahns even more. Plus, some "tourists," like myself, bring their own beer when they visit Utah. Last time I went to Moab I brought at least a couple cases of "heavy" beer from Colorado. Didn't buy any beer on my visit, other than a watery pint at a bar.

So I guess I have to deduce one of two things: Either the non-Mormon Utahns are a bunch of lushes or there are quite a few Mormons out there that secretly drink behind closed doors. Or maybe a bit of both, I suppose.

Or is there something else that I'm missing here?

Have a little time on your hands today?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Lupulin

I've been to Utah many times, and I may relocate there one day, but I'll never understand the oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws in the state.

Why on earth would you want to relocate somewhere with such oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws?

[Lupulin]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Why on earth would you want to relocate somewhere with such oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws?

As you might be able to tell, I'm rather passionate about beer. Craft beer, specifically (not interested in the fizzy, yellow, 3.2 beer). So you pose a very good -- and poignant -- question.

Coupla' things going on here ...

First, the job situation for my wife and I may be drying up soon. We have multiple relocation locations to consider, unfortunately they're not so desirable to us ... some Southern states, some Midwestern states, Texas ... and possibly Utah. Nothing else in the West / mountains as of now.

Second, excluding beer, our other cardinal passions are climbing and skiing. Not to mention, we also like canyoneering. So as far as those things go, Utah is beyond perfect.

If Utah works out, job-wise, I might just have to sacrifice the beer passion a bit ... and bootleg in my own stash from time to time.

[Lmejh]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Why on earth would you want to relocate somewhere with such oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws?

Because some people don't care about the oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws I couldn't imagine living anywhere else

[Lupulin]

Originally Posted by kaytidid

Have a little time on your hands today?

Yeah, work was slow ... and I didn't feel like going to the gym tonight. Much more fun to drink beer while typing about it.

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by Lmejh

Because some people don't care about the oppressing, antiquated, totally backward alcohol laws I couldn't imagine living anywhere else

ITA! Not a beer drinker myself. I do like my mixed drinks from time to time, but if it disappeared off the face of the earth, that wouldn't matter to me at all.