Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (Millcreek: crime, homes)

[lemon&lime]

Just wanted to chime in with my two cents. Some may remember me from my posts last year. I am a non Mormon who lived in downtown Salt Lake for a couple of years. I got a bad nose job, decided I couldn't live with the cold weather, didn't feel good about the culture etc and moved back to New Mexico last fall.

I've had a few months to really think about my experience in Utah and to be honest, it's been kind of eye opening. The Mormons on this board who say there are mean people everywhere, that it is not just Utah, etc., are right to a large extent. I have been shocked at the rudeness and mean behaviour I have encountered in New Mexico. This is actually a topic on the Albuquerque board from time to time; ie, bullying and cultural conflicts in New Mexico. I've brought it up on the Albuquerque board and everyone denies, says that this is "how Albuquerque is" and that I have probably done something to cause people to treat me badly. No one seems willing to admit that the place is a mean town.

Last month I went to a temp job and the bosses were both born again Christians with pictures of Jesus in their office. Neither would say more than hi or goodbye to me and the whole office acted like I was some kind of pariah. The office I am at now is also headed by a born again type who seems very suspicious of me for reasons I'm not entirely clear about--- probably it has something to do with my appearance which has gotten worse lately due to health issues, a bad Supercuts hair that refuses to grow out, in addition to the bad nose job. My point is, the religious/conservative thing is common in many areas of the country, people are judgemental and rude about looks no matter where you go these days. Mormons and other posters who have brought this up on the forum are right. The weird thing about New Mexico is that it is supposedly a "liberal" state and is often described as friendly, even though I've never made many friends here and people are constantly writing on the Albuquerque board about "I'm new to town, why haven't I made new friends?".

I could not live with the Mormon factor in Utah and wrote about it a lot last year but now I feel really good about my experience there and actually kind of miss you all, even the mean Mormons. Towards the end I did not venture out much beyond Sugarhouse and got pretty bored but and complained bitterly that everyone was just a fake, blonde, mean snob, that I was being mistreated all over town which I really was. I moved to Salt Lake to get away for a while and I'm glad I did. It was nice to be away from all the drinking and yucky party culture that I have to deal with here.

I feel for you cycle and other people with families who move to Utah and have problems. I personally would probably not raise a family there, I think it would be too difficult. I hope you find a solution; leaving the state might be your best bet. It is too bad really that nice people move to Utah with good intentions and then are written off as non Mormons who are supposedly ruining the place. I wonder if Mormons are aware of the fact that Utah is being heavily marketed. I moved up there to go to massage school at the Utah College of Massage Therapy after getting a guide book in the mail that had pictures of the Trax train, mountains, skiers, and the Gateway. I thought it looked pristine, like a nice, quiet place to live. I'm don't regret the time I spent there and plan to visit once the City Creek is finished.

[kaytidid]

Nice to see you again, Catrinac! I was wondering where you had disappeared to (City Data wise..I knew you moved to NM).

Sorry to hear that NM isn't making you happy. I hope you are able to find someplace where there aren't as many mean people. Mean people suck.

Thank you for chiming in, especially for this thread. I am not mormon, but I never had any problems living here. The whole point of most of our posts to the OP were that there ARE mean people all over and wherever you move to, there is going to be something about it that make you crazy.

Thanks again and don't be a stranger!

[stiffnecked]

Geez, why do people complain like this? Utah has been the capital of Mormism since it was invented by Breed'um Young. If you don't like Mormons you shoulda moved to Oklahoma. After all the Pope is Catholic isn't he? Should I move into an all Catholic neighborhood and then complain cause they all act Catholic? Don't move some place then expect them to change to meet your needs.

[mktavish]

Originally Posted by stiffnecked

Geez, why do people complain like this? Utah has been the capital of Mormism since it was invented by Breed'um Young. If you don't like Mormons you shoulda moved to Oklahoma. After all the Pope is Catholic isn't he? Should I move into an all Catholic neighborhood and then complain cause they all act Catholic? Don't move some place then expect them to change to meet your needs.

You dont get it unless you been around the town along time .... yes it is Mo Mo ville ,,, shut the f@#% up if you think your going to change the town or something .............. But it has actually gone through huge changes over the years ... when the Olympics came to town .... that was very changing.

I would say there is a bigger amount of these christian types ... that say mormons are not christians.
Personally I think their form of religion is stricter and more far fetched than mormonism. err who really cares ......

I predict that mormonism will split again ,,, because they need to make it more popular anyways ... and the number of progressive mormons are growing. woot ...luving to see it .

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by stiffnecked

Geez, why do people complain like this? Utah has been the capital of Mormism since it was invented by Breed'um Young. If you don't like Mormons you shoulda moved to Oklahoma. After all the Pope is Catholic isn't he? Should I move into an all Catholic neighborhood and then complain cause they all act Catholic? Don't move some place then expect them to change to meet your needs.

No, not Oklahoma.......if you think it's hard in Utah living around mormons, I would say it's harder in Oklahoma, if not harder being in the minority and living around baptists.

[Hobo2]

Originally Posted by Lmejh

I'm adding Sanpete County on my list, right below Utah County

2 goods!

1. If you can't understand Mormons and are not willing to adapt the culture, "good", move on!

2. If you like and enjoy the family oriented Mormon culture, "good", we can use a great person like you... how can I help?

I say this because you don't specify you list, you want to dive in, let us know your feelings.

[Hobo2]

Originally Posted by stycotl

just remember, the government can't make people take their meds unless they've been baker acted. maybe it's not his fault...

Very intellectual comment, lets hear more form your vast intellectual prowess, and please over do it as others have done in this thread!

PS. Only those with experience with "meds", or the lack of intellect would respond in such a fashion. I need not prove anything here, in fact, less said and more to the point is more intellectual in Utah, lol. Of coarse, I'm speaking to an outsider with an agenda to prove how dumb and different Utahans are, or he/she would know this... right?

[Hobo2]

Originally Posted by lolagranola

People are 1, defending that YOUR experience is not THEIR experience, 2, trying to figure out WHY.

Hey, I posted many a time on the SC board that I was treated like total crap there due to region-specific biases, and every time they tell me that I must have been asking for it....or they ignore me alltogether.
ex: http://www.city-data.com/forum/charl...-accepted.html

, "Treated like total crap" "region-specific biases" "They" "they ignore" Nah, no chip on the shoulder here, it's Utahans with the problem... please someone give this person a mirror!

[Hobo2]

Originally Posted by stycotl

already read and reread your posts. you still have not gone back to clarify, and i'm not about to waste any more of my time trying to mindread. when you write two conflicting things, people tend to hesitate before they decide which one they think is true.

no one claimed that you weren't living a christian life...

...and no one is denying that it happens. this is called a straw man argument, where you argue that we are arguing a point that we are not arguing.

none. of. us. are. denying. it. got it?

maybe it has to do with the fact that your idea of constructive conversation would be when everyone else concedes that you know more than they do about the places that they are more familiar with than you? is that it?

true, but that is not the point. again, straw man.

no, it is nothing like that, because that wasn't even remotely what anyone said. no one has justified anything. are you being purposefully deceptive, or do you really just not understand what i am saying when i tell you that a broad generalization doesn't work, *because* it happens elsewhere?



i am not being negative. disagreeing with you does not automatically make me negative. nor does it automatically make me wrong. nor does it automatically mean that i am attacking you.

it means that i DISAGREE with you. that's it. period.

this is a strange brand of tolerance that i have seen in this thread. you are tolerant so long as no one disagrees with you, no one voices an opinion that might be different from your own, and no one remarks about the logical errors of your argument.

i've tried to understand you; i've asked for clarification i don't even know how many times now, and you still haven't answered. how are we supposed to navigate this maze of logic if you won't even qualify anything that we have questions about?

again:

in one sentance, you say it is a mormon thing.

in the next, you say that it isn't a mormon thing, and you don't know where in the world we got the idea that you think it is a mormon thing. i've quoted it quite a few times, so i don't know how you missed it. if you want to have an intelligent conversation, try starting with the points that have been raised and the questions that have been asked.

if in the presidential race, one candidate asked another candidate a question, and the first candidate refused to answer it, don't you think that would look a little fishy?

i keep thinking i'm done with this thread because it is fairly obvious that you don't want anyone here that doesn't think like you do, and that you are not even willing to use the normal rules and ideals of debate in order to communicate with us, but then you go and make another generalization, or another straw man argument, or another emotional response or unjustified accusation, and i feel compelled to point it out. it is beginning to feel like a cosmic cycle (whoa, that all just fell together too perfectly; that wasn't even an intentional play on names and words...).

whether you like it or not, or even agree with it, a sweeping generalization is a *logical fallacy*. i've brought that up since my first post here. whether you like it or not, so is a straw man argument. whether you like it or not, so is an emotional response.

that should narrow some of my concerns down for you.

not angry. not hostile. not attacking. but definitely concerned.

aaron out.

Cycle doesn't want to understand, I'm so glad you get it.

A person like this is not going to be happy wherever they are... it will always be someones else's fault for their lot in life. They just stir things up, because they don't have a life. My proof will be their lack of responding to me... and you, need I say more!

It is sad to see this kind of thread because people like Cycle are destructive to this wonderful state. I'm sure this goes on, but truthfully, doesn't it happen everywhere, and doesn't it involve a very small number of people? To look at one bad apple, or experience one negative incident to someone from out of state or a different religin, then paint everyone this way, is a very narrow minded raciest person, if you ask me. What is racialism? Is it for the colored only? What if someone like Cycle were saying this about a minority, how would it be perceived?

In my opinion, Cycle is board with life, frustrated with how things turned out (usually because of their own making), and looking to place blame.

Utah has it's faults like any other state does. Utah has its fanatics too, like any other state does. Utah is wholesome in their beliefs, and does legislate this theme (we do in fact elect like-minded people). Blaming "all" Utahans for the actions of a few, or criticizing the people by calling them sheltered or brainwashed (you know Cycle is intending to say this), is a reflection on only on type of persons here, PLEASE DON'T GET CONFUSED!

As far as I'm concerned, this subject is closed. Take sides if you want and keep the argument going.. But remember, if you choose to move anywhere, Utah is best for families, we love people and try hard to reflect this. But also remember, we are tough too, we don't take kindly to people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to bash others. We do expect people to be responsible and productive... doesn't everone expect this.

[lolagranola]

Originally Posted by Hobo2

, "Treated like total crap" "region-specific biases" "They" "they ignore" Nah, no chip on the shoulder here, it's Utahans with the problem... please someone give this person a mirror!

Uh, WTF? Talk about an obvious chip, did you READ anything? You know what they say about "assumptions"....

FYI, the comment above is about my ACTUAL experience in another state. I have lived in about 7 states (as an adult) and had this problem in ONE. GUESS WHAT?? it WASN'T UTAH.

I know what I am talking about.....do you????