Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (Highland: restaurants, vs.)

[kaytidid]

I was trying to figure out where he was coming from...you were talking about SC, not Utah....

[osugirl2]

Originally Posted by Chickrae

No, not Oklahoma.......if you think it's hard in Utah living around mormons, I would say it's harder in Oklahoma, if not harder being in the minority and living around baptists.

I guess since I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life, I don't know the difference, but I've never experienced the whole Baptist Bible Belt thing. I've been to many different churches and even regularly attended a baptist church in high school for a while, though I consider myself Methodist. I have had more conflicts/debates over Politics here than religion i.e. we label each other and debate as democrat vs. republican.....lol

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by osugirl2

I guess since I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life, I don't know the difference, but I've never experienced the whole Baptist Bible Belt thing. I've been to many different churches and even regularly attended a baptist church in high school for a while, though I consider myself Methodist. I have had more conflicts/debates over Politics here than religion i.e. we label each other and debate as democrat vs. republican.....lol

I experience it at work all the time. Some.....and let me repeat some so as not to generalize don't have a high opinion of baptists. They look at them as a cult, so it could be different how they view a methodist. Actually I am starting to have some really good conversations with the people I work with. I just want them to understand....nope it's not a cult.

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by osugirl2

I guess since I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life, I don't know the difference, but I've never experienced the whole Baptist Bible Belt thing. I've been to many different churches and even regularly attended a baptist church in high school for a while, though I consider myself Methodist. I have had more conflicts/debates over Politics here than religion i.e. we label each other and debate as democrat vs. republican.....lol

Oh yeah I keep my political views to myself here for sure. I was in the minority in Utah and I am totally in the minority politically here......even my DH and me are on opposites on that.........

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by Chickrae

I experience it at work all the time. Some.....and let me repeat some so as not to generalize don't have a high opinion of baptists. They look at them as a cult, so it could be different how they view a methodist. Actually I am starting to have some really good conversations with the people I work with. I just want them to understand....nope it's not a cult.

Whoops I said that wrong some Baptists don't have a high opinion of mormons. I guess I should proofread what I type.

[osugirl2]

Originally Posted by Chickrae

Whoops I said that wrong some Baptists don't have a high opinion of mormons. I guess I should proofread what I type.

lol I have typos all the time. I happen to be a republican, but many of my closest friends are "flaming liberals" I personally think everyone is entitled to their own political views and beliefs, but there is definitely a liberal majority over there in green country where you're at, and while my liberal friends tease me, they can get down right hateful about the republicans (not that I'm generalizing that every liberal is that way of course) There are definitely a lot of misconceptions about the LDS Church, and I'm glad that some of your co-workers are starting to talk with you about it. I myself knew hardly any facts about the LDS church until my best friend moved to Las Vegas and became LDS a few years after she got there through a guy she had started dating. Misconceptions are always due to a lack of knowledge, and I think that's probably why some in Utah experience what they do. Just as many people here in Oklahoma know little about the LDS faith, so it goes that many in Utah may not know too much of other faiths or lifestyles other than their own. When I first started checking out the Utah page I was afraid there was a lot of strife due to the "Us vs. Them" mentality since it was the topic of a lot of threads on here, but now I think there are so many posts about LDS vs. Non-LDS because that's all anyone has ever associated Utah with in the past. Religion is very much a lifestyle for many especially Mormons and I think if outsiders would start regarding it as more of a culture and way of life rather than just a "religion" they could see it differently

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by Hobo2

Very intellectual comment, lets hear more form your vast intellectual prowess, and please over do it as others have done in this thread!

yeah... so i hit a nerve, did i?

i don't claim to be the smartest person alive, or even the biggest smart ass alive, though i compete for the title on a daily basis. but i'm also not a medicated individual. i'm actually pretty rational until i get stuck in traffic, can't make my cell phone work right, etc.

PS. Only those with experience with "meds", or the lack of intellect would respond in such a fashion. I need not prove anything here, in fact, less said and more to the point is more intellectual in Utah, lol.

i'm not sorry that you don't appreciate my humor or sarcasm. i am sorry, however, that your "don't like it, get out!" attitude is pretty often taken as the state motto here.

Of coarse, I'm speaking to an outsider with an agenda to prove how dumb and different Utahans are, or he/she would know this... right?

hmm, are you referring now to me, or to the op?

utah has its problems, and as a native mormon of the state, i still don't like them. i don't have to get out of here just because i don't agree with the problems, do i?

where would the world be if everyone had this mentality? europe would be speaking german; austrailia would be speaking japanese; mormons would have had to leave utah; atheists and gays would have been run out of america alltogether; the earth would still be considered flat; and evolution would still be considered opinion (oh wait, i forget, a huge number of people do still consider evolution an opinion, or worse, a conspiracy...).

so, my "vast intellectual prowess" declares that we should work together to first, recognize the problems inherent in ourselves and our own communities. secondly, we should work together to apply practical, respectful solutions to the problems that don't boil down to "mormons suck" or "nonmormons suck" and try to kick everyone out of our lives that we don't agree with.

how's that sound?

aaron out.

[dcisive]

It is probably easier to try to peg Utah as a specific manner of being, as they have a predominant religious following unlike most other States. I've lived in Illinois, Wisconsin, Oregon, California and now in the south end of the Salt Lake Valley. I came out here originally in the late 70's (1978-1981). It truly was a completely different world here back then. The population in Northern Utah (including the Salt Lake metro area) was approximately 87% LDS. I was approached immediately by LDS youth and visiting teachers of the area in Millcreek (near St. Marks Hospital) very quickly. I was 25 years old and single so not surprised. If you were a non mormon living here then you pretty much stuck out, however since I was so clean cut most folks assumed I was LDS and treated me nicely.

I enjoyed the cleanliness (it was back then) of the city, the non existant crime (nobody locked their cars or homes doors back then) and felt free to roam anywhere at any time. I befriended some folks from the U and we went to movies and musical shows and dinners from time to time. It was however, otherwise a difficult time to be single considering the general population. My neighbor, who was always trying to encourage me to listen to some LDS books on tape fixed me up twice with returned missionary women. They were sweet, but after a couple of dates they were onto me with the religious deal.

I must admit in some small regard I miss the way it was back then. There was pretty much no crime. NO bank robberies, no rapes, no assaults, no gangs, no graffitti. It truly was like another world in some regards, however all good things come to an end. I was dating a neighbor gal I came to really care for, and when I moved briefly back to the Chicago area in 81, I took her with me and we married. I'm happy to report 28 1/2 years later we are still happily married.

We did NOT however end up with children. 3 miscarrages (one that nearly killed her) later we remain a "childfree" couple. I don't say "childless" as that would infer we were not happy with the arrangement. It affords considerable freedom you won't get with kids. However having settled here it is tough as there are a select number of "adult only" activities one can participate in as it seems everyone finds it mandatory to drag their broods of a half dozen or more brats everywhere they go regardless of their behavior or if others are bothered by it (babies into a movie theatre? what are they thinkin").

We live out in Rosecrest area of Herriman. We bought there 5 years ago when there was pretty much nothing around us. Well that went away, now there are families everywhere around us. Summers are nuts as people allow their kids to roam the streets unsupervised until late hours (past 10pm) which in my day simply did NOT occur. Yes it is another world. I got off the path however.

In our town powered scooters, ATV's and pocket bikes are illegal to drive on the streets or sidewalks of Herriman. You think that stops these folks....not on your life. What I see as the "we're in Utah we can do as we damn well please" is the order of the day. I have to shake my head and say what are these people thinkin' and then it comes to me....they aren't. There seems to be NO respect for other peoples property. They drop cans, bottles, trash or whatever on your lawn. Walk their dogs (on a leash or not) allowing them to pee and defecate on your lawn with careless abandon, even though there is a leash law (I guess not a pee and poop law).

I yelled to a gal that was walking her dog on the sidewalk, and it just went right on the lawn at the end of her leash and pooped, she just looked at me, said nothing and proceeded to leave her dogs junk on my lawn walking away. Yeah, I'd say there definetly is a rash of "brain dead" folks running around this area. Are they unique? I can't say for sure as I have not noted it elsewhere, but it's possible.

I guess I'm just not one of those that enjoys have screaming brats running all around the place during decent weather when you want the widows open for some nice air and all you get is noise pollution. Ironically one of my favorite times is rainstorms when everything and everyone is INDOORS. It is peaceful to me and I rather like it. Also cleans the air out nice as well. Having been all of these OTHER places however, I can't say that unless I lived on 40 acres in a rural area 1/2 mile from my next neighbor I'd be happier. It seems to all be about "the neighborhoods" around here. I prefer country myself. If it weren't for the job situation I'd head there. Who knows, maybe that winning lottery ticket will have my name on it. But I'll just bottom line it here. Other than typical "neighborhood life" people are people and they will usually respond to how you are. If you are nice to them, they will return the favor. The religion has fairly little to do with it. I don't have kids in school so that's not my problem........

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by dcisive

It is probably easier to try to peg Utah as a specific manner of being, as they have a predominant religious following unlike most other States. I've lived in Illinois, Wisconsin, Oregon, California and now in the south end of the Salt Lake Valley. I came out here originally in the late 70's (1978-1981). It truly was a completely different world here back then.

still is, though definitely less so.

The population in Northern Utah (including the Salt Lake metro area) was approximately 87% LDS. I was approached immediately by LDS youth and visiting teachers of the area in Millcreek (near St. Marks Hospital) very quickly. I was 25 years old and single so not surprised. If you were a non mormon living here then you pretty much stuck out, however since I was so clean cut most folks assumed I was LDS and treated me nicely.

people should treat you well no matter if you are clean cut or not. obviously i'm preaching to the choir, but still, it does seem to be a bit of common sense that some people in the world lack.

I enjoyed the cleanliness (it was back then) of the city, the non existant crime (nobody locked their cars or homes doors back then) and felt free to roam anywhere at any time. I befriended some folks from the U and we went to movies and musical shows and dinners from time to time. It was however, otherwise a difficult time to be single considering the general population. My neighbor, who was always trying to encourage me to listen to some LDS books on tape fixed me up twice with returned missionary women. They were sweet, but after a couple of dates they were onto me with the religious deal.

i'll leave that one alone. i hated it when people tried to hook me up with other girls; only ever had one good experience with it, and i was too stupid to call her back.

I must admit in some small regard I miss the way it was back then. There was pretty much no crime. NO bank robberies, no rapes, no assaults, no gangs, no graffitti. It truly was like another world in some regards, however all good things come to an end. I was dating a neighbor gal I came to really care for, and when I moved briefly back to the Chicago area in 81, I took her with me and we married. I'm happy to report 28 1/2 years later we are still happily married.

congrats, especially in the context of modern marriage traditions, where it is nothing unheard of to go through two or three divorces in that same amount of time. means that you guys respect each other and work hard for your relationship.

We did NOT however end up with children. 3 miscarrages (one that nearly killed her) later we remain a "childfree" couple.

i'm sorry to hear of the miscarriages. my wife had one our first time around, and it certainly wasn't a walk in the park. having three would be tough.

I don't say "childless" as that would infer we were not happy with the arrangement. It affords considerable freedom you won't get with kids.

to each his own. doesn't make you any less of a good person than someone with kids.

at times, i miss being kidless. sometimes i miss being wifeless too, but the benefits of both have made up for the freedom i gave up, in my opinion.

However having settled here it is tough as there are a select number of "adult only" activities one can participate in as it seems everyone finds it mandatory to drag their broods of a half dozen or more brats everywhere they go regardless of their behavior or if others are bothered by it (babies into a movie theatre? what are they thinkin").

for the record, i dealt with that in florida and georgia pretty often, and still have never seen it here. one lady in georgia brought her toddlers into the movie, and proceeded to curse at him at the top of her lungs as the previews started running when he decided that he would rather run up and down the aisles than sit in his seat. rated pg-13 movie too–with a three-year old.

if you can't get a babysitter, don't go to the theater. seems logical to me; my wife says i'm too narrowminded about that...

We live out in Rosecrest area of Herriman. We bought there 5 years ago when there was pretty much nothing around us. Well that went away, now there are families everywhere around us. Summers are nuts as people allow their kids to roam the streets unsupervised until late hours (past 10pm) which in my day simply did NOT occur. Yes it is another world. I got off the path however.

this is pretty common elsewhere however, even in big cities. unfortunately people don't seem to think that there is a need to know where their kids are or what they're doing.

In our town powered scooters, ATV's and pocket bikes are illegal to drive on the streets or sidewalks of Herriman. You think that stops these folks....not on your life. What I see as the "we're in Utah we can do as we damn well please" is the order of the day.

seems kind of narrow to call it a "we're in utah" problem when this mentality is just about everywhere.

I have to shake my head and say what are these people thinkin' and then it comes to me....they aren't. There seems to be NO respect for other peoples property. They drop cans, bottles, trash or whatever on your lawn. Walk their dogs (on a leash or not) allowing them to pee and defecate on your lawn with careless abandon, even though there is a leash law (I guess not a pee and poop law).

I yelled to a gal that was walking her dog on the sidewalk, and it just went right on the lawn at the end of her leash and pooped, she just looked at me, said nothing and proceeded to leave her dogs junk on my lawn walking away. Yeah, I'd say there definetly is a rash of "brain dead" folks running around this area. Are they unique? I can't say for sure as I have not noted it elsewhere, but it's possible.

i can promise you that stupid people are not unique to utah. they are everywhere, and as our society continues down the welfare path that it is on, i'm betting that we will only be producing more.

I guess I'm just not one of those that enjoys have screaming brats running all around the place during decent weather when you want the widows open for some nice air and all you get is noise pollution. Ironically one of my favorite times is rainstorms when everything and everyone is INDOORS. It is peaceful to me and I rather like it. Also cleans the air out nice as well. Having been all of these OTHER places however, I can't say that unless I lived on 40 acres in a rural area 1/2 mile from my next neighbor I'd be happier. It seems to all be about "the neighborhoods" around here. I prefer country myself. If it weren't for the job situation I'd head there. Who knows, maybe that winning lottery ticket will have my name on it. But I'll just bottom line it here. Other than typical "neighborhood life" people are people and they will usually respond to how you are. If you are nice to them, they will return the favor. The religion has fairly little to do with it. I don't have kids in school so that's not my problem........

i too prefer country and would never subject myself to the stupidity that is a home owners' association or anything like that. if my neighbors don't like the color of my housepaint–whether or not they are in my ward or not–they can shove it.

people are people, as you've said, and if you treat them well, without worrying so much about what religion they are or what religion they think you are, then usually you will be treated in kind. when you are not treated well, it only means that they're not worthy of your time anyway, so you might as well keep on walking. smile at them, give them the benefit of the doubt in case you merely misread something, or in case they change, and then leave them alone. there are plenty of nicer people in the world that you might as well get to know, instead of wasting time with self-absorbed idiots.

aaron out.

[Cycle]

Hobo2 (does this originate from the clown)

You stated "Cycle doesn't want to understand, I'm so glad you get it."

Don't presume to know anything about me! You are coming across as a very mean spirited person and making my point for me...I really don't need to say anything else!

You stated "A person like this is not going to be happy wherever they are... it will always be someones else's fault for their lot in life. They just stir things up, because they don't have a life. My proof will be their lack of responding to me... and you, need I say more! "

A person like what? Someone who speaks the truth, is it that hard to take? I have chosen not to respond to you and the poster you responded to simply because you both are doing such a great job of making my original point for me that anyone who posts anything negative about living in Utah gets attacked, so thank you again for making my point for me. And yes, I am responding to this one because I just wanted to let you know I was still here...you haven't scared me off, but I do have a very fulfilling and busy life and I don't have time to sit on here every day like some people do.

Then you stated "It is sad to see this kind of thread because people like Cycle are destructive to this wonderful state. I'm sure this goes on, but truthfully, doesn't it happen everywhere, and doesn't it involve a very small number of people? To look at one bad apple, or experience one negative incident to someone from out of state or a different religin, then paint everyone this way, is a very narrow minded raciest person, if you ask me. What is racialism? Is it for the colored only? What if someone like Cycle were saying this about a minority, how would it be perceived?"

So, you are sure that this goes on in Utah (I am assuming that you are talking about my experiences here)! Again with the doesn't it happen everywhere comment, and again I ask does that make it ok? If you were indeed as smart as you are attempting to portray yourself as (of which you are doing a poor job), you would have read all my posts and understood (as I keep asking others to do) that I am not condeming a religion or a state, it is an issue in my little neighborhood...Before making any more ridiculous generalizations about me or my thoughts, take the time to educate yourself!

And, "In my opinion, Cycle is board with life, frustrated with how things turned out (usually because of their own making), and looking to place blame."

Your blatant attempts to bait me into a heated arguement are disgusting...and for the record a board is "a committee having supervisory powers" or "a long flat slab of sawed lumber", neither of which fit this situation, might I suggest proofreading your posts prior to hitting the button (just in case you don't understand, it should have been spelled bored)

"Utah has it's faults like any other state does. Utah has its fanatics too, like any other state does. Utah is wholesome in their beliefs, and does legislate this theme (we do in fact elect like-minded people). Blaming "all" Utahans for the actions of a few, or criticizing the people by calling them sheltered or brainwashed (you know Cycle is intending to say this), is a reflection on only on type of persons here, PLEASE DON'T GET CONFUSED!"

Making false statements about another persons intentions is the basis for forming, stating and spreading vindictive prejudice...another good example of making my point for me, again thank you! Any rational person who comes here and reads this posting is going to see through the ridiculous arguements and know that what I said is true (about trolls).

Finally you ended your tirade with "As far as I'm concerned, this subject is closed. Take sides if you want and keep the argument going.. But remember, if you choose to move anywhere, Utah is best for families, we love people and try hard to reflect this. But also remember, we are tough too, we don't take kindly to people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to bash others. We do expect people to be responsible and productive... doesn't everone expect this.

As far as I'm concerned I am glad you think this subject is closed and hope that you go spread your hate somewhere else, you are doing the great state of Utah a supreme injustice by posting on this thread.