Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (Saratoga Springs: home, landscaping)
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How do you go about gathering that research? How can you ever really know what people are like before you move into a neighborhood? If you can't tell by looking at it, you have to talk to people. Seems like you'll be put into a position of having to judge people before you even get to know them. And are you willing to ask the kinds of questions to get the specific answers you want..."Hi, are you guys stuck-up Mormons?" "Just exactly how many Mormons live in this neighborhood?" Who are the non-LDS in this neighborhood...then go and ask them if the Mormons are nice or not? I mean everyone is going to have a different take on it- even "Nons" as some like to call themselves. Some are going to be offended no matter what. Some won't care. And I would venture to bet there are plenty of unfriendly "Nons" that you wouldn't like to be neighbors with either.
Maybe you should find a friend first then go buy a house in their neighborhood. Then you'd be sure to have at least one person that says hi to you.
"Intolerable behavior" is a pretty strong phrase. My guess is that if you've been "tainted" by what you perceive as intolerable Mormons (which is only a baby step away from "all Mormons are intolerable"), you might as well just move out of the state cause I promise you will find some in every neighborhood in Utah.
I only read the first couple replys. Let me tell you even if you are LDS and you move into SLC like my family did you will still be treated badly. I move back to Cottonwood Heights and even the kids I went to church wouldn't hang out with me. They had lived in the same house for years along with there neighbors. And they see me as an outsider. So don't fill like its just because your not LDS.
You asked about research, one thing people should do if they are looking for a concentration of LDS, non-LDS or Diversity, google or look in the phone book for Salt Lake City Area or Provo/Orem area you will find distinctly different ratios of LDS and non-LDS churches. Salt Lake City area in the yellow pages has many more different demoninations listed than the Provo/Orem book.
I Googled Church Orem Utah and the first 40 pages (i think it returned 5 thousand but I did not look through them all) with 10 responses each were all Latter Day Saints with listings for five other churches...so 395 listings for addresses on LDS in or near Orem and 5 listings of all other religions...With a population of approx 85,000 people (as of 2000 census) and less than 10 churches (according to my phone book) representing all other religions it is a safe bet that the area has a very high density of LDS.
When I googled Church Saratoga Springs Utah, there were returns of 119 (one hundred and nineteen) Latter Day Saints Churches listed in Saratoga Springs and Lehi, one return of a Baptist Church and nothing else, then it started moving into Eagle Mountain area. So pretty safe bet that the area is primarily LDS, anyone practicing any other religion must go out of the area. Again, do the research there is a lot of information to be gleaned if you can figure out what question to ask. I wish I had known this prior to moving to Saratoga Springs. Just trying to help.
Try St George Cycle. It is mostly transplants to Utah so is quite diverse in its population. I have several friends that live there and they love it (LDS and non-LDS) My family and I are moving there in about 6 weeks and really looking forward to it. I wish you the best but it sounds like it's time to find a friendlier neighborhood. Try killing them with kindness. Smile and wave, blow them kisses maybe wash your car in a string bikini. If they are going to be rude give them something to be rude about.
LOL you have no idea how many times I have been tempted!!!! Instead I try and do the Christian thing and present myself and my family in the best light possible, we are very kind and considerate people and don't have it in us to intentionally incite the behavior we are suffering no matter how satisfying it would be, it would only be temporary. I wish we could move, but we have an 18month lease and I can't allow what is happening here to have a negative impact on our credit history...Luckily this is a temporary assignment (24 months) and we didn't buy a house...It has definately given us a chance to bond as a family and to focus on what is important to each of us so we have been able to find a silver lining, but it still sucks. Thanks for making me laugh!
I am sorry for your experiences, I have spoken with some LDS from Hawaii and one from England and they have said they are receiving the same treatment I am mostly because they are outsiders...it is just heartbreaking how cruel entire neighborhoods can be and the really sad thing is that they don't realize the long-term damage they are doing to their own cause.
Our family sticks out like a sore thumb in Utah county. We scream out "California"!!!!!!!! The interesting thing is I have met some awesome people here and for some reason most of them are not LDS. I run into more CA transplants and we seem to attract to each other like magnets. I love people so ignorant ones that label me in a way that can justify not getting to know me.....well .....their loss....lol. I try to be friendly and the interesting thing is I have made some nice LDS friends too.
You will encounter idiots anywhere on the earth so why not focus on the wonderful people you know and meet. Sometimes people appear to be stuck up but are deep down shy. If you believe that someone is judgemental towards you, pray for them. No one in any religion should have that type of attitude towards another person. Some religions actually scare their followers to not have too much contact with non believers. Those type of belief systems seem cult like to me and instead of being offended have a little compassion for them.
oooh strong words............... why are you so offended by what cycle said?...............She obviously would like to make a few friends and is having a difficult time fitting in. It may not even be a mormon thing....women can be extremely competitive and jealous. They perceive another women may be prettier, richer, better than in some stupid way...they get all bent out of shape. I make more friends layering my clothing, wearing no makeup and tying my hair back in a bun. When dressed in any other fashion, I get glaring stares by the women and sneaky looks by the husbands. My husband laughs about this and I laugh that the women check out my hot honey!!!! lol
I came from CA and unless there is an earthquake or a fire....you may never know your neighbors....people keep to themselves and are afraid to trust........In order to make a friend you have to be a friend. It isn't a matter of sitting back and waiting for people to come to you and say....be my friend! lol
Utah gives an illusion to the new transplant that the highly religious environment is going to be loving and accepting. Let's face it...if a people is truly living a life that is Christ like....there will be love among its members and acceptance of an outsider would be their number one priority to gain new membership. I personally have met many people in all religions like that.
I try really hard to not judge people but let's face it....we all get first impressions. The most important thing is not to label ALL people the same way as what a few do. Why do you think this world is so screwed up! People always look at the differences and not the similarities. I was ripped off by two LDS, do you seriously think that I do not like all LDS because of those 2? No, I am studying the book of Mormon to understand what the whole religion is about.
My reason for even responding to your post was to state my opinion and we both have valid points. Having a strong emotional reaction is usually and indication of deeper meaning.
I understand the need for Cycle to find diversity. I prefer a good mix, too. But it seems rather ...shallow or something to go so far as to look in the phone book to find the fewer number listings of LDS congregations. Chances are she'll end up in a concentrated Mormon neighborhood again, even though there are other churches nearby. So if she is so afraid of this, I'm just wondering how she is going to prevent it from happening. I think it's a fair question.
I'm intrigued by the lengths someone would have to go to ensure they had friendly neighbors, LDS or not. Think about it. How can you really know? At some point you have to try to accept and understand your neighbors because there is something good that can be learned from everyone, even when they are completely different from you and seem to exclude you. My guess is if she tries a different approach in getting to know people, ignore the negative things she's heard and look at her neighbors as people, individuals, fellow human beings with different viewpoints who may have had different life experiences than she has had, she'll fare better. To assume that everyone who looks at her cross-eyed is thinking anything bad about her, even if she thinks she is seeing garment lines-(and how judgemental is that) sounds like she is just looking for trouble. How does one really know what people are thinking if they aren't actually talking? So my guess is that now that she's formed her opinions of Mormon neighborhoods, she'll find trouble wherever she goes in Utah.
My hope is that she would find more acceptance. I'm embarrassed for anyone of my same faith who treats others unfairly. I'm tempted to take this to top officials of the church (my mother-in-law is good friends with one of them) to address in General Conference. If LDS people are ganging up on those not of our faith, that is unacceptable. But my feeling is that what Cycle perceives as bias and folks looking down their noses at her-the "intolerable behavior" as she calls it isn't always what she thinks it is. It may be at times. Who hasn't felt left out at times? There are bullies and snotty people and cliques everywhere you go. I can guarantee it's not just a Mormon thing.
I think a good question to ask ourselves is this- if Jesus were in my situation, what would HE do? How would HE look at his neighbors? How can I try to see into my neighbor's hearts? Am I being too judgemental of them? What more can I do to try to get to know them, understand them and be accepting of them. I know people of different religious faiths would have a better experience in Utah if they turned the situation around.
Best of luck to Cycle! I'm simply suggesting digging deeper to find understanding and common ground rather than desperately trying to distance yourself from LDS people. After all they have been there in Utah a long, long time. They ran from actual physical harm by persecutors in Illinois over 160 years ago to try to find a peaceful existence. They found it there and have stayed there along with many generations to follow. Mormons don't own Utah any more than other faiths do, but you really can't blame them for being clannish given their history. They are people with feelings just like you. How fun to be one who could make a difference in showing them how loving someone from another faith can be. This a golden opportunity for you.
I did not ask for excuses, rationalizations or justifications for why my neighbors behave the way they do, but thank you for making my point again. And, Yes I can blame them (Utah Mormons) for being clannish given their history (your statement). Instead of condemning others because they are not accepted by the Utah Mormons, the Christian thing to do would be to bring this to the attention of the Elders of the Church and ask them to intercede on behalf of the people who are being treated like this and to ask their Wards to open their hearts and minds to others. Just something to think about, if you would like to have an intelligent conversation about possible solutions to this ongoing problem then remove the emotion and personal attacks from your posts because they are sounding very defensive and downright rude (which by the way is the same behavior I suffer every day at the hands of my UTAH VALLEY MORMON neighbors not all MORMONS). I have stated my position on the religion as a whole and the difference between UTAH VALLEY MORMONS and any others that I have met. Please re-read all my other posts before you attack me again.
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