Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads.
THe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is opposed to two individuals of the same sex having intimate relations with one another, just as it is opposed to two unmarried individuals of opposite sexes having intimate relations with one another. A homosexual man or lesbian woman could be in good standing in the Church as long as he or she were celebate. I'm sure there are such individuals, but probably not a huge number of them. It would probably be accurate to say that the Church is starting (slowly) to recognize that homosexuality itself is not a choice. It continues to hold, and likely always will, that our behaviors (acting upon our sexual attractions) is a choice. I'd say that the vast majority of Mormons, particularly those in Utah, oppose homosexuality. A lot, though maybe not the majority, are to some extent homophobic. I hate to have to say that, but it's probably the truth. My own personal opinion is that intimate relations between anyone other than a lawfully married man and woman are wrong. However, I've never been one to really care all that much about what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom.
On the off-chance that you are gay and are considering a move to Utah (no reason for my guess, other than the fact that you're in the Utah forum asking the question), I have heard from a number of sources that Salt Lake City is a fairly good place for homosexual individuals to live. I guess there is maybe a bigger population of gays here than one might suspect. Maybe someone else who knows better than I can weigh in on that "fact."
Your guess is correct. This year I will be a high school senior, and I'm looking at the University of Utah for college. I live on the East Coast, and we don't hear a lot about Utah over here. But most of my friends reacted by saying "you can't go to Utah, it's all a bunch of homophobic Mormons!" None of my friends have ever been to Utah, so I didn't really pay much attention to them.
I do have one friend that is actually from Utah (a suburb of SLC, I think, but I'm not positive) and she isn't homophobic at all. She's Mormon, and she said that there are homophobic people in Utah, but every state has those. She told me that Utah is a place with people who are generally very friendly and hospitable and I should still consider U of U, despite how religious Utah is. She's totally fine with the fact that I'm gay.
I'm not looking for a school or a city that has a gay pride parade every weekend or anything. I just want to go somewhere where the majority of the people I meet won't be shocked or offended by the fact that I'm gay.
EDIT: I don't care much about gay marriage. Yeah I think it should be legal, but I'm not like an activist or anything. But if I met someone, I might want to live with him without getting married. Do you think people in SLC would have problems with a gay couple living together?
Our Sacrament meetings (the most important meeting of the week) on Sundays are often filled with crying babies that are so loud it sounds like a zoo. Many members are not very respectful of those who come to church to worship and try to draw closer to God. It's very hard to do when the family in the row behind thinks it's cute when their kids yell in church. We mostly have no official "cry rooms" so the foyers get filled up with people coming and going from previous ward meetings and people who ARE trying to be respectful of others by taking their kids out. It gets pretty chaotic at times.
The first Sacrament meeting I attended (as an adult and non LDS), I was amazed at how many children were there and they were just that - 'kids'. There were no apologies for their behavior but acceptance of them for what they were - children of God.
I had not been active in church for years and for several years later. In 1991, while Hubby was deployed on the Ranger during Desert Storm I decided to take our sons back to my hometown for the winter. I took them to the church I had 'grown up' in and was shocked that there were no youth (other than my 12 & 13 y/o sons). I overheard someone say that how wrong it was for 'kids' to be there. They weren't small babies that cried - they were young men who sat as "properly" and politely as any there. I made an appointment and talked with the current minister - basically he repeated the same theme - I told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of him and how low that church had sunk. It was a few weeks later that I ran in to some Sisters at a town block party. The boys and I joined the Church after Hubby came home.
Back to the point - while there are times that I get a bit distracted by the sounds of the children - I would much rather hear them than to sit in an absolutly silent 'room' with just one man droning on. If I am distraqcted that's my own doing not the children's doing. The children are the future.
(By the way - I'm old - 63 and the children's sounds are music to my ears!)
Do you think people in SLC would have problems with a gay couple living together?
I'd say it totally depends upon the part of the city you choose to live in. If you were to start a thread on that subject in this forum, you'd probably get some really good input.
OK Mr or Ms Stiffnecked, (You really ought to get some physical therapy on that neck, a hotpad, something warm and comforting. It might help your disposition, too.)
Here is some bad stuff about the church if you must know. WE are a tired people. I don't know that we will ever accomplish all that we feel we would like to do. ANd yet we continue to run, run, run to try to get it done. Maybe that's why we appear unfriendly at times. We're just exhausted.
We have a lack of ability to keep from having more meetings than are necessary. We are told to spend as much time with our families as possible, but we are not very good at following that advice because there is always more planning we could do. We are not very good at keeping things simple.
Our Sacrament meetings (the most important meeting of the week) on Sundays are often filled with crying babies that are so loud it sounds like a zoo. Many members are not very respectful of those who come to church to worship and try to draw closer to God. It's very hard to do when the family in the row behind thinks it's cute when their kids yell in church. We mostly have no official "cry rooms" so the foyers get filled up with people coming and going from previous ward meetings and people who ARE trying to be respectful of others by taking their kids out. It gets pretty chaotic at times.
Some of our teaching manuals are pretty unrealistic as far as what to expect of children at church. 3 hours is too long to expect 4 year olds to sit quietly and listen. I teach 7 of them in a little classroom devoid of anything colorful or interesting on the walls between 3 and 4 PM when they are hungry, tired and maxed out with church. Management of this lively bunch in the ways prescribed in the teaching manuals is way beyond my abilities and theirs.
That's only a beginning. But despite these irritations, and the irritating and obnoxious behaviors of some members, the LDS church is still a good place to be. It is warm and welcoming to anyone who would like to join in with the activities, worship services, scouting, youth groups, sports events, etc. It is not exclusionary at all except when it comes to entering the temple. There are stringent requirements even for members of the church to take part in what goes on there.
THe Church (meaning it's people and it's edifices and it's programs) is not perfect. Never claimed to be. But the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is taught by the LDS church IS perfect.
Thanks for the honesty. Just remember that Jesus not Joseph is at the head of the church. That's what drives so many people out. Joe Smith this and Joe Smith that. Some years I could count on one hand the number of talks that were on Jesus. It was sad that the Saviour was so minimized while a serial polygamist was made the 4th member of the Trinity.
Well so much for nice demure questions on Mormon life, doctrine and practices.......
I think the Church has a few issues, as most do most religions, that it has to address.
A. The whole Joseph Smith experience in Upstate New York is a tough pill to swallow. It happened at a time when soapbox evangelicals where crisscrossing the landscape en masse delivering fire and brimstone and touting salvation. There where no legitimate third party witnesses, the plates, Sword Of Laban, etc. are no where to be found. All these elements affect credibility.
B. As this thread shows, there is a struggle and conflict with holding the church's original tenets in place while trying to wrestle with the 21st century. Acceptance of a variety of same sex situations a prime example, and this from a religion that once (some say rogue factions still do) practiced polygamy.
Does a religion (any religion) that adopts and adapts to changing times to survive, or even thrive and grow, lose itself in the process? Is it the case that the more worthy and true a religion is the more apt it is to remain lock stead to original teachings, doctrine and lifestyle? Does the more a religion adopts and adapts, even though these actions may make it grow larger, wealthier, etc. the more it's true credibility shrinks...?
Well so much for nice demure questions on Mormon life, doctrine and practices.......
I think the Church has a few issues, as most do most religions, that it has to address.
A. The whole Joseph Smith experience in Upstate New York is a tough pill to swallow. It happened at a time when soapbox evangelicals where crisscrossing the landscape en masse delivering fire and brimstone and touting salvation. There where no legitimate third party witnesses, the plates, Sword Of Laban, etc. are no where to be found. All these elements affect credibility.
B. As this thread shows, there is a struggle and conflict with holding the church's original tenets in place while trying to wrestle with the 21st century. Acceptance of a variety of same sex situations a prime example, and this from a religion that once (some say rogue factions still do) practiced polygamy.
Does a religion (any religion) that adopts and adapts to changing times to survive, or even thrive and grow, lose itself in the process? Is it the case that the more worthy and true a religion is the more apt it is to remain lock stead to original teachings, doctrine and lifestyle? Does the more a religion adopts and adapts, even though these actions may make it grow larger, wealthier, etc. the more it's true credibility shrinks...?
We take Joseph Smith's word on faith and we believe that through the Holy Ghost we can receive personal revelation that what he said happened is the truth. (Isn't Moses parting the Red Sea and the story of Noah and the Ark a bit much to believe, too? What about the angels and the star when Jesus was born. It all sounds like a fairy tale without faith. By the way, we believe those Bible stories, too.)
We don't worship Joseph Smith. We don't pray to him. We worship God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. We revere Joseph Smith for all he did to re-establish Christ's church again in it's true form. We revere him as a prophet who had direct communication with God the Father and Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith isn't and never was a member of the Godhead.
ANd I don't have any idea what you mean by a church that changes with the times only becomes richer and less credible? Our church HASN'T changed to fit the times but has grown wealthier (has been blessed) due to proper management of the tithes that it's member's pay- tight budgets, reasonable investments, etc. It is also one of the most generous churches in response to natural disasters around the world. It's often said the LDS church arrives before the Red Cross. The Humanitarian System of the church is a wonder to behold. This kind of thing just wouldn't be possible if church members and leaders were greedy and simply changing constantly to accomodate the whims of it's members and the world.
Well so much for nice demure questions on Mormon life, doctrine and practices.......
I'm not sure that anybody said only "nice, demure questions" were allowed. Where did you get that idea?
Quote:
I think the Church has a few issues, as most do most religions, that it has to address.
A. The whole Joseph Smith experience in Upstate New York is a tough pill to swallow. It happened at a time when soapbox evangelicals where crisscrossing the landscape en masse delivering fire and brimstone and touting salvation. There where no legitimate third party witnesses, the plates, Sword Of Laban, etc. are no where to be found. All these elements affect credibility.
B. As this thread shows, there is a struggle and conflict with holding the church's original tenets in place while trying to wrestle with the 21st century. Acceptance of a variety of same sex situations a prime example, and this from a religion that once (some say rogue factions still do) practiced polygamy.
Does a religion (any religion) that adopts and adapts to changing times to survive, or even thrive and grow, lose itself in the process? Is it the case that the more worthy and true a religion is the more apt it is to remain lock stead to original teachings, doctrine and lifestyle? Does the more a religion adopts and adapts, even though these actions may make it grow larger, wealthier, etc. the more it's true credibility shrinks...?
Any comments I might make on these issues would be inviting debate on the validity of Mormonism. That was not my purpose in starting this thread. If you would like to pose exactly the same questions in the Religion forum, I would be more than happy to respond to your questions. I would just like to see this particular thread remain one in which people who are moving to Utah, contemplating a move to Utah or have recently moved to Utah may ask questions they may have about LDS doctrines, practices and history. Please don't think I'm evading these issues. I just don't see them as pertinent to this thread on this particular forum. If you should decide to start a thread on the Religion Forum, would you be so kind as to PM me so that I won't miss it? Fair enough?
Isn't Moses parting the Red Sea and the story of Noah and the Ark a bit much to believe, too? What about the angels and the star when Jesus was born. It all sounds like a fairy tale without faith. By the way, we believe those Bible stories, too.
Precisely, this is why I qualified my post with "as most religions" and "any religion"....and those other stories are hard to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlymac
We revere Joseph Smith for all he did to re-establish Christ's church again in it's true form. We revere him as a prophet who had direct communication with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
You would certainly have to accept something like this on faith alone, but you have to understand some people might feel that Joseph Smith experienced a personal "Woodstock" in upstate New York just 140 years earlier, and some early form of "LSD" or other delusionment may have played a role in forming the "LDS"...all due respect and no pun intended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlymac
ANd I don't have any idea what you mean by a church that changes with the times only becomes richer and less credible? Our church HASN'T changed to fit the times.
But from what I see on this thread the church and members are experiencing some angst and tricky maneuvering with modern day issues, wherein if they do not change outright they will at the very least be hammering a square peg into a round hole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlymac
It is also one of the most generous churches in response to natural disasters around the world. It's often said the LDS church arrives before the Red Cross. The Humanitarian System of the church is a wonder to behold. This kind of thing just wouldn't be possible if church members and leaders were greedy and simply changing constantly to accomodate the whims of it's members and the world.
I have no argument and am in full agreement with this last passage, and I reiterate that I presented the adapt and adopt may equate to watered down credibility as a theory and did not single out the LDS church.
Question (Request) for the Mormons, the African song "Dubula" is usually performed in smaller church choirs and college and high school chorales. I think the Tabernacle Choir would sound phenomenal doing it on a larger scale (If thay have not already)......Below is a Canadian high school chorale called "Cantabile" performing passage of the song. Let me know what you think.....
But from what I see on this thread the church and members are experiencing some angst and tricky maneuvering with modern day issues, wherein if they do not change outright they will at the very least be hammering a square peg into a round hole.
I'm not sure I follow you, but I assume you're referring to homosexuality. So far, it seems to me that several of us have differing opinions on this issue.
Quote:
Question (Request) for the Mormons, the African song "Dubula" is usually performed in smaller church choirs and college and high school chorales. I think the Tabernacle Choir would sound phenomenal doing it on a larger scale (If thay have not already)......Below is a Canadian high school chorale called "Cantabile" performing passage of the song. Let me know what you think.....
I think the Choir would do a phenomenal job with this song. I've never heard them sing it, but I have heard them sing a very similar one. I'll have to see if I can find the name of it.
Please don't think I'm evading these issues. I just don't see them as pertinent to this thread on this particular forum. If you should decide to start a thread on the Religion Forum, would you be so kind as to PM me so that I won't miss it? Fair enough?
Alright, but you have to delve into these waters ever so slightly on occaision here to project a full dimension of the question and answer, and a certain amont of debate may ensue.
Glad you liked the vid...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
Linear Mode
