Cedar City Real Estate (Provo, St. George: mortgage, loans, refinance)

[toadmama]

Can anyone shed some light on the current housing market in Cedar City. We were there a few weeks ago and it seemed like there were lots and lots of homes for sale. Do houses tend to stay on the market for a long time? Why are so many folks selling? Is it just the time of year?

We live in Maryland and will be moving later this year. Cedar City is just one of three possibilities. I'd love to hear some opinions on the market.

Thanks.
Toadmama

[Blondie-Rabbit]

Lots of houses on the market. Reason it is over inflated here. I've been watching several houses for a couple of years now, and they have not moved at all. There are few good jobs, and most pay is horrible. The locals are priced out of the market because they can't earn enough to qualify. Those that did the adjustable rate mortgages, are now facing losing their homes without some intervention. Industries are kept out actively by the City Council that would pay more than what is already being paid locally. It would hurt the economy to them, yet wihtout the higher wages, the people can't afford the homes. It is a vicious circle. Greed rules the real estate market here. Those that own, think they are rich and can sell at higher prices than the same comperable house in California would cost. those who don't, wish tey could own, but can't afford it.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit

Lots of houses on the market. Reason it is over inflated here. I've been watching several houses for a couple of years now, and they have not moved at all. There are few good jobs, and most pay is horrible. The locals are priced out of the market because they can't earn enough to qualify. Those that did the adjustable rate mortgages, are now facing losing their homes without some intervention. Industries are kept out actively by the City Council that would pay more than what is already being paid locally. It would hurt the economy to them, yet wihtout the higher wages, the people can't afford the homes. It is a vicious circle. Greed rules the real estate market here. Those that own, think they are rich and can sell at higher prices than the same comperable house in California would cost. those who don't, wish tey could own, but can't afford it.

Is your area area experiencing a big influx of retired Californians with the capital gains from the sale of the inflated prices from their homes in California ? That does make it real tough on the locals.

[Blondie-Rabbit]

OHHH the myth of the rich, home sold for a lot, Californians invading So. Utah. Think about this. If a person made a killing on the sale of their home, and had a huge profit to retire on, would they come here and put a huge chunk of that retirement on a home? If so why isn't the average age of St. George higher? Seems the average age is in the mid to high 20's. there has not been a big influx of older people, more than normal. Nor have all the older people coming in been from California. What did happen was a lot of Californians leveraging their mortgage in Cal. to buy property in Iron and Washington counties to play the flip game. Those people are now experiencing problems of being stuck with homes that have adjustable rate mortgages and are not selling. When struck with the reality of lsoing one of their homes, either where they actually live in California, or the flip game property in Utah, the Utah property is losing out. They will let that house go into foreclosure rather than lose the home where the good job is. Maybe this is a better place to live, but there is a price for paradise. If paradise is more expensive, and no jobs to support it, it can become hell.

Too many locals also bought into the refinance your home scenerio. I know of three people right by me who have recently lost their homes. They bought them when they were less than 75K and refinaced for 150K. These were people that could afford the first rate of the adjustable rate mortgages. When the interest went up, it was a shock. They never considered the consequences of their actions. They drank the preverbale kool aide of greed. It sadens me to think that these are wonderful people, paying for what in essence is a not fully disclosed finacial opportunity. If most knew what exactly those loans would do, and what they would really be paying, would not have gotten into that kind of trouble.

I remember the days when Cedar was bigger than St. George, and St. George would go to Cedar to do their big shopping. When we moved back, I was shocked to see the switch. Then I asked my old friends who have lived here forever, why there were no big industries which paid better wages. Again I was shocked to learn the dirty little secret of why. Case in point is In and Out Burger. It was denied entry into Washington near Best Buy, becasue....It wanted to pay wages of $10 an hour like all of it's other stores do. They were told point blank it would hurt the economy to pay that high of wages. On the flip side of that Costco was encouraged to cme, since those same City Coucil members hated to drive to Vegas to go to Costco. Yet Costco was allowed to come in and pay the $10 an hour. Selective admission into the economy. Time to get the old dead wood holding back the economic growth (sustainable) for the area. Face it real estate and construction is tanking. those jobs in the next year to two years are going to downsize. It is foolish to think they are unending. What needs to be here are industires and jobs that will be around, and pay living wage. If locals can't afford the area, and want to purchase a house, they are going to end up moving to where they can, and where the real jobs are.

As to Cedar City, It has the same mentality. I could list the companies that wanted to locate there but were turned away. Now they are bally hooing the coming person who is going to reopen the Iron mines as the big thing. At what wages? At what impact to the county? At what cost to the beauty they prize so much of the surrounding scenery? I know personally both Sherrat, and Browning the mayors or in Brownings case also the police chief of Enoch. I know what their plans are for the future. I also know from having been informed by both what they are doing to accomlish said goals. Enoch will eclipse Cedar.

The bubble of real estate and construction windfall has ended. The area needs to have sustainable industry. If there are no jobs to afford the prices of houses, there will be no sales. If the only people that can afford those houses come from out of state, then the locals had better get used to the idea that the way of life they prized will vanish. As to older people having sold their house and then paid cash here, it is stull a myth. A handful of people have, but overall, that is not what has happened. Statistics dear friend, do not support that myth. I'm lucky in that my hubby works for a large national corp. and works from home via the internet. Only concern we have is the crappy internet service So. Utah has. Which brings up a whole other can of worms. Services here are crap. Californians learn very quickly that the attitude of, "When I get to it" applies. I know too many like us that have run into shoddy service when they do get to it. There is the attitude, that if you need something fixed on that house you bought, good luck. We are too busy building to fix. Or if you watch them build to make sure it is done properly, they get mad if you make them redo an improperly done bit. Again the attitude of we don't have time for that, and you didn't pay for me to fix it.

I get around, and have talked first hand to quite a few. I'm well known in the area. I probably dated half the male population within 10 years of my age when I first lived here. I know the families of both countie3s that are old line. I know a lot of the locals. I also know a lot of the real estate and construction people, besides mayors. I can also count on Bob Bennet as a friend, and Even Mike Leavitt. His mother was my sorority adviser at SUSC (Now SUU). I know Fred Adams very well. I could go on, but It is silly.

I love So. Utah. That is why I moved back here. I don't want to leave. I put up with the crap, because to me the good far out weighs the bad. I have lived so many other places that yes I can chime in and say this is better than any of the others. I just say what I do so that there are not more people who come in with blinders on who think there are good paying jobs that they can readily get. Or that the housing market is going up and is healthy. Reality doesn't support it. The infrastucture of the are needs vast improvement. Kick Black Rock construction in the behind and have them do a quality job on internet construction and implementation. Maybe Baja will improve it's service that way. Get three lanes on the I-15 corridor. Think of the traffic load now. It is only going to get worse. The black ridge between Cedar and St. George is a nightmare with the trucks, and those who don't know how to safely drive. St. Geroge talks about fiber optic for internet, isn't it time to get it in more than one industrial park? What about the two families that control the gas in So. Utah? I use to see the gas prices around here be cheaper than Vegas. Now they can compete with the Bay area in California. They have risen and greed again is a factor. When the average drops in the country to below $3/gal. Makes me wonder how in past years Washington and Iron counties stayed on track to match that. Now it is one of the higher priced areas. Again this impacts the locals. They are increasingly driving further to find that better paying job. Then that better paying job is not so good when the profits are eaten up in gas costs.

The idea that this is the fastest growing place in the country was true for a very short bubble of time. It would make a good 20/20 expose of how paradise has turned into purgatory.

[nunusguy]

Blondie-Rabbit -
I've not lived in Utah but did live in Boise, ID for a little over a year in the early 90s and know of the resentment the locals in Boise had towards out-of-staters (who were almost exclusively from CA), who would come in and buy houses in Boise. They had not just substantial down payments, but enough cash from the profits from the sale of their houses with inflated prices in CA many times so that often they could pay cash at closing for their purchases.
Its just basic economics, supply & demand: if there is more money chasing a limited # of products (houses in Bosie), the price of the products will of course be elevated and make the products more expensive.
I was unaware of the resentment until I began to notice people (normally friendly and polite), would turn away from me when I waived as I drove down a street in a neighbor hood. I finally figured ourt that the state I had just moved from at the time (TX), had the same color of license plates as the CA plates.
I thought perhaps people in Cedar City had some of the same sentiments today as the people in Boise did back then, though I really dunno ?

[Blondie-Rabbit]

Some of the senitment here is, come buy the over inflated overly gluted housing market homes. But don't move here. then there are those who welcome everyone no matter what. It is a mix. Everyone wants the profits of overpriced homes. Only some are welcoming. The job market is very unfriendly. Unles you can bring a thriving business to town, or work for some out of state company that places you here, you will run into the good old boy, or nepotism for the few higher paying jobs. The rest you scramble for, and usually settle for a pay check to pay check existence on the lower end of the wage earning chain. I really don't know how some of them make it. One bishop told me there is a great deal of church welfare given out. That may be the reason some survive on the meager earnings.

[rhondaw]

Why are there so many negative responses about to moving to Utah? I have lived here throughout alot of the state for 15 years, when I first moved here from California, Los Angeles area I moved to Mount Pleasant Utah, from there I moved to Provo area, then to St. George, then to Ephraim, and finaly here in Cedar City, and I have never experienced any of what alot of the people who dont live in this state are stating on this forum, I feel you are treated with the attitude you project. There are alot of people that have different ideas about anything from religion to mowing lawn, if you treat people with respect then respect is what you will receive. Yes there are people who just like to stir the pot, and so be it, but that doesn't have to be applied in a general population of any city and state. Utah is a great place to live, work, play, raise your children, and yes, retire.

[LlasaLost]

I've said it before, but evidently no one read it, so I'll post it again: Californians (and other out-of-staters) are not all villiage idiots; they do not have a subconscious desire to pay more for their homes than is reasonable; however: when you consider what they may have gotten for the sale of their house as opposed to the asking-price here in UT they naturally will grab onto the UT house without giving much thought to the fact that the UT prices are over-inflated--big time! And who sets those asking prices? Well, it ain't the out-of-stater buyers; perhaps it's the, shall we say, greedy sellers?

[Blondie-Rabbit]

The negative is not about being a great place to live. Utah to me is a wonderful place to live. Like LlasaLost has said, it is the overinflated prices that are negative. It is also the real problem of a lack of good paying jobs. Those are reality. If it is negative, then something should be done about fixing the greed problem.

[NYtoVT]

Guess how the housing market here in SW Utah got so inflated ?. The same way any other market gets inflated. By LOCALS selling their property to unsuspecting out-of-staters. Please don't tell me that the locals are hurting with respect to the housing market. Many have sold their appraised 150k home for 250k and were happy to do it. Now they complain that the housing market is out of reach. Hey, I never heard any local weather from Utah, VT or anywhere else say to a buyer "Nope, you're payin' me too much for my property". I ran into this exact same mind-set in Vermont. Long time locals succumbing to the greed factor.
I can't speak for the job market in So. Utah but it does seem that there are not many well-paying, skilled jobs available. I do find it hard to believe that any municipal administration would turn down the opportunity for a company to relocate here because they were going to pay too much. Suppose Microsoft decided to relocate to St. George ?. Think the powers-that-be would turn them down ?. Cedar has Port 15 which is an viable attempt to bring low-impact business to the area. It being actively promoted. I guess I just don't understand why a municipality would promote a business-friendly climate, give tax incentives and other perks to business if they didn't want it.