Relocating to Vancouver/Portland area (Seattle, Camas: sales, low crime, home)

[jpongracz]

I am waiting for my relocation/job package from a company for a job in Portland. I am anxious to find a community that will suit my family. I have been leaning towards Vancouver and surrounding communities vs. Portland and would appreciate any advice. My husband and I have a 3/12 yr old and a 2 yr old and live in the metro Detroit area. We enjoy the country life vs. city more so and love the outdoors. Please help! Thanks!

[GIMMER]

I worked in Portland and live in Battle Ground. Great place to raise a family with nice parks and facilities...country living at its best. Housing prices are better than Vancouver proper, but once they complete the new access to I-5, then there's a good chance prices will start to climb again. Schools are good, and have a few places to do your shopping (Fred Meyers and such). Vancouver is only 15 minutes away, Portland 30. Hope this helps.

[rainsalot]

This came from Sam Adams, a Portland city commissioner. DO NOT CONSIDER LIVING IN VANCOUVER AND COMMUTING TO PORTLAND!

OUTSIDE EXPERTS: HAYDEN ISLAND FREEWAY RATED "F" AT PEAK WEEKDAY HOURS
In response, I am proposing a temporary development moratorium that allows "everyday business improvements" on Hayden Island to continue, but delays congestion-causing development until new Columbia River bridge and neighborhood plans are in place.

"F" is the grade outside experts has given I-5 freeway in the vicinity of Hayden Island during morning and afternoon peak commuter hours, "...at capacity conditions for at least seven hours each day," states an August 25, 2006 report prepared by David Evans and Associates for the City of Portland.

In addition to looking at the freeway captivity of I-5 in the Hayden Island area, David Evans and Associates also studied the safety of the area's intersections and ramps, including their crash history. Based upon their analyses, David Evans and Associates determined:

Interstate 5 in the vicinity of Hayden Island experiences recurring congestion. During weekdays, I-5 operates at capacity conditions for at least seven hours each day.
Since vehicular access is provided to Hayden Island via one interchange with I-5 and no other access roadways exist, I-5's existing capacity constraint significantly limits access to Hayden Island. During congested periods, automobiles, trucks, emergency vehicles, and buses experience substantial delay. Congestion-related delay of emergency vehicles can significantly affect public safety.
I-5 in the vicinity of Hayden Island operates at level-of-service (LOS) "F" for three hours or more during both the AM and PM peak periods, which is inconsistent with policies from the City of Portland's Transportation System Plan and Metro's Regional Transportation Plan. These plans consider allowance of LOS F conditions for only one hour during each of the AM and PM peak periods.
During peak periods, vehicles queued along I-5's southbound off-ramp can exceed the ramp's storage capacity, resulting in vehicles stopped within the ramp's deceleration area and along the I-5 mainline itself. This condition contributes to increased crash potential (over a recent five-year period, approximately 100 vehicular crashes were reported on southbound I-5 within two-tenths of a mile of the off-ramp).
Vehicular queues can extend beyond the available storage capacities at five other key at-grade intersections on Hayden Island. These conditions result in operational capacity reductions and/or unexpected obstructions that can result in a vehicular crash.
Interstate 5 in the vicinity of Hayden Island experiences high crash rates. Over a recent five-year period, 429 crashes were reported in the 0.5-mile segment of I-5. Over 75 percent of these consisted of rear-end collisions and 38 percent of the crashes involved an injury to one or more people. The greatest proportion of crashes occurred when I-5 experienced congested conditions.

[the dufferz]

wow. This sounds like the Seattle commute we are used to.

I did have to chuckle about this:

This came from Sam Adams, a Portland city commissioner. DO NOT CONSIDER LIVING IN VANCOUVER AND COMMUTING TO PORTLAND!

I am sure the commute is not great, but I am equally sure that there is a touch of politic in this. Translation:

Come live in Oregon so you can pay our 9% income tax! We are tired on you getting stuff here with no sales tax, and living in washington with no income tax. CHEATER!

Hmm. Can't blame either side of the equation for that.

I wonder if that's the reason for the commute issues.

Money talks.

[NWgirl]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

This came from Sam Adams, a Portland city commissioner. DO NOT CONSIDER LIVING IN VANCOUVER AND COMMUTING TO PORTLAND!

I am sure the commute is not great, but I am equally sure that there is a touch of politic in this. Translation:

Come live in Oregon so you can pay our 9% income tax! We are tired on you getting stuff here with no sales tax, and living in washington with no income tax. CHEATER!

Hmm. Can't blame either side of the equation for that.

I wonder if that's the reason for the commute issues.

Money talks.

The only problem with that, dufferz, is that commuters from Washington who work in Oregon still pay Oregon income tax. But, if that is even a true comment from Sam Adams, it is political. The city commissioners hate cars and commuters and want everyone to take public transportation. The City of Portland and Multnomah County don't want to improve traffic flow, they want to keep it jammed up so that, in their minds, more people will hop on MAX and take the bus.

jpon, I live in the Vancouver area and, even though I don't like commuting to Portland for work, I really like living in Vancouver and would never want to live in Portland again. Vancouver and it's surrounding areas like Camas and Battle Ground are a little smaller than Portland, but get all the advantages of living next to a big city.

[the dufferz]

NWgirl,

wow. Learn something new everyday! So, people living in Washington, working in Oregon pay the Oregon income tax? Do they have the right to vote in their elections? If not, is this not Taxation without Representation?

Do these folks also then pay the washington state sales tax?

If all this is true, why would anyone want to work in one state and live in another? Double whammy!

[NWgirl]

Originally Posted by the dufferz

NWgirl,

wow. Learn something new everyday! So, people living in Washington, working in Oregon pay the Oregon income tax? Do they have the right to vote in their elections? If not, is this not Taxation without Representation?

Do these folks also then pay the washington state sales tax?

If all this is true, why would anyone want to work in one state and live in another? Double whammy!

Hi dufferz,

Yes, it really is taxation without representation. I've thought about throwing some tea into the Columbia River. I don't know if it's spineless Washington governors who allow this abuse of alleged Wasthington residents or if someone else is to blame, but it sucks. And yes, we still pay sales tax, too, unless we're shopping in Oregon, but we don't vote in Oregon elections. It's unfair.

Speaking for my family, the reason we do it is that there are more jobs in Portland and it's where my job is, but housing costs are better in the Vancouver area and Vancouver is a little smaller, more like a suburb than a city, and we don't have to put up with the City of Portland taxes and Multnomah County shenanigans. But mainly, it's the housing opportunities and the environment of Vancouver.

But don't give up hope, you may hear about our revolution yet!

[the dufferz]

Dang girl!

Be careful! Around here if you throw anything in the water you will probably be arested for poluting with toxic waste!

[Baltic_Celt]

Hi Dufferz, NWGirl -

I live in Boston where many NH/RI folks commute into Boston to work. They're hit with income tax, too (NH has no state income or sales tax), but the high wages keep them coming in, which has been a long-term situation. Probably the same in the Vancouver/Portland area - been going on for many years? NH in particular, has the highest quality of living of any state, according to several recent studies & a 45-mi commute sometimes gets them home in the same timeframe as those of us who have a city-only commute, due to congestion (traffic or public transport). NH has no over-crowding issues, low crime, lower housing/property costs, which are all huge contributing factors to living in NH/working in MA, I guess just like living in the surrounding Vancouver areas.

But, I wonder if RI residents pay income tax in both states if they work in MA - is it split? I'm sure there's other pockets around the country,too, (besides our areas) where the same state-to-state living/working situations are, no?

Anyway, just adding my "I understand" comments. I'm enjoying your posts, as Seattle is one of the areas I'm considering moving back to come spring. I love Vancouver, too, (not crazy about Portland though) but would want to avoid the above situation (OR income tax) & am unsure of the job market in Vancouver. Here, you never hear of anyone working in NH & living in Boston. Just not a big selection of companies/jobs in NH.

Cheers, then... Baltic_Celt

[xxman777]

My understanding is you pay income tax in the state where you work (that state which is considered the source of that income). I’m sure there are many reasons why this is done but there are a couple which come to mind. If an employer has employees in multiple states where does he file or does he have to file multiple times? What happens if the employee moves from state to state without switching jobs? This creates difficult situations for the employer and for the sake of simplicity you just tax income in the state where it is earned. There are also issues of fairness. The mass majority of infrastructure needed for the workplace is in the state where the job is. Not in the state where the employees live. Sure it is taxation without representation but there are a lot of other issues involved in this case, plus if you want representation all you have to do is move into the state where you work. There are a lot of places where this problem comes up. NY, DC, Chicago, Kansas City, St Louis, Philadelphia, etc.