Vancouver Schools and Teacher Strikes - what gives? (sales, apartments)

[MtnSurfer]

It looks like they've posted starting school this fall due to current conflicts. Is this just business as usual in a never ending battle for better pay, etc..? Or is something else going on?

Tempers flare as teacher walkouts spread

Derek

[USDefault]

Teacher greed. Asking for ridiculous raises that will bankrupt the districts.

[notnamed]

So there’s some history to this but to sum up:
- State’s funding of education was found to be unconstitutional
- Court ruling mandated they fix it or pay annual fines
- Legislature put in a fix, increasing state property taxes and decreasing/capping local levies
- Part of the money generated by that fix was to go to teacher salaries who have not received a cost of living adjustment in years
- The school districts have chosen not to pass that money on to the teachers in the form of raises
- Teachers are striking to get at least a portion of what they should have gotten from those state funds

It’s a big deal because of the court decision finally being implemented, not a regular thing.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by notnamed

So there’s some history to this but to sum up:
- State’s funding of education was found to be unconstitutional
- Court ruling mandated they fix it or pay annual fines
- Legislature put in a fix, increasing state property taxes and decreasing/capping local levies
- Part of the money generated by that fix was to go to teacher salaries who have not received a cost of living adjustment in years
- The school districts have chosen not to pass that money on to the teachers in the form of raises
- Teachers are striking to get at least a portion of what they should have gotten from those state funds

It’s a big deal because of the court decision finally being implemented, not a regular thing.

and... to top to it off.. WA Supreme Court 'disallowed' the WA voter approved CAP to property taxes (due to the fact it would 'Limit' collection and spending by tax districts (duh...))

So... LOTS of WA tax collection money is going somewhere (within Government), but not to teachers.... (Schools (State and local) get ~ 50% of Property Tax collections... ~ $10000 / yr from me)

Worth a strike,

Worth saving big on infrastructure (busses / buildings / offices that do not pay taxes). School workers finding new gainful employment and closing the schools / no more 'free daycare' for parents.

There are lots of other viable and effective options.

It could be a really great time and opportunity to 're-invent' a more applicable and effective education system than public feedlots and pig troughs. !

Shut-er-down!

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by notnamed

So there’s some history to this but to sum up:
- State’s funding of education was found to be unconstitutional
- Court ruling mandated they fix it or pay annual fines
- Legislature put in a fix, increasing state property taxes and decreasing/capping local levies
- Part of the money generated by that fix was to go to teacher salaries who have not received a cost of living adjustment in years
- The school districts have chosen not to pass that money on to the teachers in the form of raises
- Teachers are striking to get at least a portion of what they should have gotten from those state funds

It’s a big deal because of the court decision finally being implemented, not a regular thing.

Thanks for the background. It helps to put these current events in historical context. Unfortunately, it also sounds like a bait and switch for taxpayers with that money not making it's way to the teachers. Maybe it stops at administrator perks, salaries, etc... It really is unfortunate when there are other good things going on like the charter schools and the new Discovery High School starting up this year. I was considering dropping by and talking to school officials. But with all of this going on, I think it will be too chaotic. I'll wait until the dust settles a bit. We're not in a big rush...

Derek

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Thanks for the background. It helps to put these current events in historical context. Unfortunately, it also sounds like a bait and switch for taxpayers with that money not making it's way to the teachers. Maybe it stops at administrator perks, salaries, etc... It really is unfortunate when there are other good things going on like the charter schools and the new Discovery High School starting up this year. I was considering dropping by and talking to school officials. But with all of this going on, I think it will be too chaotic. I'll wait until the dust settles a bit. We're not in a big rush...

Derek

count on the administrators having PLENTY of time for you this trip... They have Nothing else to do... no student or teacher crisis to solve, good time to polish the sales pitch and NO crowds for your tour!

[texasdiver]

I'm a teacher who moved to Vancouver from TX 2 years ago. I'm currently between schools so not involved in this strike directly. But I can give a direct comparison between the two states and how they pay teachers.

Cost of Living? Vancouver is 30-50% higher depending on the item. Housing is at least 50% higher. Food/Gas and everything else is somewhat higher, maybe 10%.

Teacher salaries? I got a small raise (about $5,000) moving from TX to WA for same position/education/years of experience. Actually only about $4000 was actual higher salary in WA because I would have moved up one spot on the schedule in TX anyway with one additional year of experience. This is for a middle class suburban TX school district. Rural districts pay much less.

Health Benefits? Pretty comparable. Both states provide a choice of HMO and PPO options. The cheapest family plans cost about $500-700+ per month out of pocket. I didn't do a really close comparison but there was nothing strikingly different between the two states in terms of health benefits.

Retirement benefits? Both have a traditional pension system. TX has a higher multiplier (2.3%) compared to WA (2%) but the TX pension is not indexed to inflation whereas the WA pension has a COLA so you retire with a 15% higher pension in TX but it never goes up. You start out with a 15% lower initial pension in WA but then it goes up with inflation so it depends how long you live where those two lines cross. TX also doesn't pay into social security for teachers so you have no SS deduction from your paycheck but then you had better save more yourself in a 403(b) plan to make up the difference. Kind of a wash. Any TX teacher putting his/her entire 7.2% SS percentage into a 403(b) plan for the duration of their teaching career will have enough saved to replace SS and then some. WA has a newer pension system they are pushing on new teachers that is basically a 1/2 size pension with a 401(k) type plan attached. I guess it is cheaper for the state so they are pushing it. But as of now teachers still get their choice of which plan to join but then are locked in to one or the other. Retirement rules (when you can retire) were basically the same in both states.

Bottom line? WA teachers are basically getting TX wages to work in a much higher cost of living state and one that claims to value education more. My wife is employed so I don't need to scramble for side gigs to make a living. But I know a bunch of teachers who are constantly scrambling for evening and summer work just to make ends meet. Driving Uber, bartending, test prep tutoring for Kaplan, etc. etc. And a whole lot of them are living in extremely modest circumstances (small apartments on the fringe of town, shared housing, etc.). I knew a lot of young teachers at the low end of the pay scale who could easily buy a modest first home in a nice new subdivision in TX on their teaching salaries. That isn't remotely possible here.

For elementary teachers and art/music type teachers who don't have a lot of private sector options the teachers stick around for the most part even with low pay. But for teachers with science/tech/health care type skills it is difficult to recruit and keep good teachers. Why stick around at a HS teaching coding or nursing when you can double your salary in the private sector?

In any event, Stealth is right. The schools are pretty quiet right now because Administrators have nothing really to do. All the negotiations and decisions are being handled at a higher level than school principals and counselors so they aren't involved in all that. All the normal orientation, registration, and school athletics activities are still all happening so it isn't like the schools are closed. You just have a gauntlet of smiling waving teachers to drive past when you enter the school parking lot.

If I had to guess, they will reach some final agreement by Friday evening which will end up killing the 3-day memorial day weekend for teachers who will all feel compelled to get back into their classrooms over the weekend to get ready for Tuesday a.m. school start. But I don't know anything other than what I read in the news.

[USDefault]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

Cost of Living? Vancouver is 30-50% higher depending on the item. Housing is at least 50% higher. Food/Gas and everything else is somewhat higher, maybe 10%.

Not universally true. Here's a comparison between Vancouver and Austin:Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
. Housing is definitely more expensive in Austin, as is cost of living. How about Forth Worth:Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
And I could make any number of comparisons between different cities in Washington versus different cities in Texas. Makes more sense to compare like cities, and Austin seems an appropriate marker. That is why some of the raises the teachers are seeking are insane, massive salary ramps of ~20% and even more.

Health Benefits? Pretty comparable. Both states provide a choice of HMO and PPO options. The cheapest family plans cost about $500-700+ per month out of pocket. I didn't do a really close comparison but there was nothing strikingly different between the two states in terms of health benefits.

And private-sector employees, who are paying all the taxes to support these public employee health benefits, will be lucky to be offered any health plan at all, and it won't be nearly as good as the HOM/PPO offered by the teacher's unions.

Retirement benefits? Both have a traditional pension system.

Private-sector employees would kill for any kind of "traditional pension." Private citizens get a 401k. That's it.

Bottom line? WA teachers are basically getting TX wages to work in a much higher cost of living state and one that claims to value education more.

But not just TX wages. WA teachers also get what many would consider gold-plated healthcare, and the pension plans as well. All of that is the total compensation package -- and it is much more than many in the private sector are making.

But I know a bunch of teachers who are constantly scrambling for evening and summer work just to make ends meet. Driving Uber, bartending, test prep tutoring for Kaplan, etc. etc. And a whole lot of them are living in extremely modest circumstances (small apartments on the fringe of town, shared housing, etc.).

And non-teachers aren't? Many, many private-sector workers are doing the same, and living in the same conditions.

But for teachers with science/tech/health care type skills it is difficult to recruit and keep good teachers. Why stick around at a HS teaching coding or nursing when you can double your salary in the private sector?

In which case, they should leave and take those opportunities. Busting the school budget is not an option.


The true bottom line is this: some of the raises being demanded are insane. Mark my words: if there is an economic downturn, if there is a recession, if the markets turn, it's going to be a bloodbath. Locking in these sky-high salary demands now will result in zero cushion in the future. The districts will be running on fumes. If a recession hits, private sector employees will not have the ability to pay the freight for all of this. And the districts will have no reserves or cushion, none, to withstand a prolonged downturn. You and your fellow public-sector employees will be pink-slipped -- and fast. I'd be careful about recklessly exploding the budget for personal gain.