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This is not necessarily the case. Pretty much ALL, and I do mean ALL the commuting issues and congestion in Clark County relate to the massive stream of Portland-bound commuters crossing I-5 and I-205 bridges. What this means is that I-5 south and I-205 south are the two main traffic bottlenecks in Clark County and generally have stop-and-go or just stopped traffic during morning commute times. And all the approaches to I-5 and I-205 south as well. I used to drive out to Ridgefield in a reverse commute every morning and the southbound traffic was often at a standstill all the way out to Padden Parkway on 205 (8 miles north of the bridge) while I was driving at 70 mph in the northbound lanes.
For commuting to downtown Vancouver from Camas you'd be driving in on Highway 14. There is congestion between 164th and I-205 for all the Camas and East Vancouver residents trying to get onto the I-205 bridge but they are mostly in the left turn lane and you can generally sail past on the right lane. Same thing happens as you approach downtown vancouver but most of the Portland-bound traffic is in the right turn lane and you can usually sail past in the left turn lane or center lane to downtown Vancouver. And if Highway 14 is a total mess you can always take the Old Evergreen Highway down by the river and sail past all the congestion. There is no access to I-205 from the Old Evergreen Highway so you don't get caught in that traffic.
If you are driving to downtown Vancouver from Ridgefield or Salmon Creek you will be stuck in the same southbound traffic as all the Portland-bound commuters and all the congestion on the bridge that backs up into Vancouver. There is no other way to get from Ridgefield to downtown Vancouver other than just get on I-5 south with all the other commuters.
Bottom line? I don't think Ridgefield is going to give you an easier commute to downtown Vancouver than Camas. Sure if you add 20 more minutes and live way out in the mountains above Washougal then yes, our way out near Livingston Mountain. But from central Camas to downtown Vancouver shouldn't be more than 15 minutes without traffic and maybe 20 minutes with traffic.
I agree with you texasdiver, my point was that rural Ridgefield or Salmon Creek would be closer than rural Camas, up on Livingston mtn etc.
Nevada City... That's one of most picturesque and storied towns in California, if not the West. Camas is a neat downtown but it's not going to have anything on the Victorian Christmas. That being said, if you are looking to have anything remotely like Nevada City, you should probably only consider Camas. The good thing is that Camas should feel somewhat familiar in that there is a good mix of high value properties and those of the working class. Where Camas is going to feel very different is its sprawling development and proximity to large cities. To get a better sense of the feel, imagine if instead of Grass Valley next door, it was Roseville.
First I'd like to send a big thank you to MtnSurfer for all of the thoughtful and thorough inquiries, and to all who have provided information in return. I can't tell you how many times I've scoured these recent threads as our family prepares for our new adventure.
Hi April,
Glad to know that my seemingly endless questions at times help others as well. I do sometimes wonder. lol
Quote:
I've just been offered a position with Clark County and will be making an initial trip tomorrow and Friday. We currently live in the CA foothills, near-ish to Lake Tahoe. I went to grad school in OR (at OSU) and my husband lived in WA for a while, so we are reasonably sure that we will love the area. The difficulties lie in pinning down a place to live and deciding on buying now vs. renting (and probably breaking a lease when we find the right home).
....
Barring a drastic change of heart, our house here hits the market on Friday.
Any recommendations or advice you'd like to share would be most appreciated! Areas I should drive through? Commute concerns? (I'll be working downtown in the VA hospital complex.) Any other neighborhoods/towns we should seriously consider? We have looked at Felida/Salmon Creek as well as some downtown neighborhoods, but nothing is resonating (particularly nothing that jives with good schools).
THANK YOU!!!
All best,
April
Congrats on the job offer! That's awesome. Funny that you mentioned OSU which is a great school, BTW. We were initially thinking of a potential move to Corvallis just to be near the school so our teenagers could attend. That little town actually has a lot of charm. But ultimately we do like Vancouver/Camas more due to closer proximity to places we enjoy such as the Gorge, more river, lake access, etc...
Its kinda funny that you live in Nevada City because that Sierra Foothill region including places like Auburn, etc... is the final place we were planning to look in CA before making the move. We have friends in Auburn and love the Sierra Mountains. However, the PNW would really be a greater adventure for us and something we're just more excited about experiencing after many years of considering it.
The one recommendation I would give you is to take my findings as well as other's comments with a grain of salt. The reason for this is we all come with our own presences, biases, etc... What may be great for one family might not work for another. Though certainly its good to hear from all sides of an issue like driving in from further out in the country, for example.
While we thought the Felida/Salmon Creek area wasn't for us, we only visited it one time and we certainly didn't drive all the neighborhoods. In fact, many have recommended one part near WSU Vancouver we didn't make over to. But that is a beautiful area out there especially if thinking about country living. Its kind of on the edge of town and country living. With kids you do want to keep an eye on school districts as you mentioned. They also vary quite a bit and sometimes have 'interesting' boundary lines.
Lastly, let us know how things go with your decision to list your place and visit.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 09-19-2018 at 09:37 PM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,601 posts, read 57,556,690 times
Reputation: 46013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer
Hi April,
Glad to know that my seemingly endless questions at times help others as well. I do sometimes wonder. lol
Congrats on the job offer! That's awesome. ... What may be great for one family might not work for another. Though certainly its good to hear from all sides of an issue like driving in from further out in the country, for example.
...
Lastly, let us know how things go with your decision to list your place and visit.
Derek
As one who LOVES to drive and has lived in the boonies most my life, I only realized the great risk of living on country roads AFTER my own kids started driving. (and after doing rural trauma training).
We lost (2) wonderful HS gals from our church youth group on the Dark, rainy Camas rural Roads (each >3 miles from Stauffer). My own kids drove lots of miles during HS, Running Start, and when we moved east of Washougal (10 yrs prior) there was a string of fatal accidents on SR 14. Then there was a Bar / Dinner club at Port of Camas, and no dividers in 2 lane.
As a family we made 8 - 12 trips across the dangerous slough bridge daily.
I slept a LOT better when the kids left home and I wasn't waiting at home for 'that' phone call.
As a commercial driver, I have attended to a lot of fatalities as the only person on-scene (Most recent on Aug 19, in WY). Attending to injured 'kids', is very troubling to the soul.
Also... one of a million things I regret as a parent... (tho a homeschooler..) is MORE TIME with family.. & not being within walking distance of home (from my job / grocery / library).
As one who LOVES to drive and has lived in the boonies most my life, I only realized the great risk of living on country roads AFTER my own kids started driving. (and after doing rural trauma training).
We lost (2) wonderful HS gals from our church youth group on the Dark, rainy Camas rural Roads (each >3 miles from Stauffer). My own kids drove lots of miles during HS, Running Start, and when we moved east of Washougal (10 yrs prior) there was a string of fatal accidents on SR 14. Then there was a Bar / Dinner club at Port of Camas, and no dividers in 2 lane.
As a family we made 8 - 12 trips across the dangerous slough bridge daily.
I slept a LOT better when the kids left home and I wasn't waiting at home for 'that' phone call.
As a commercial driver, I have attended to a lot of fatalities as the only person on-scene (Most recent on Aug 19, in WY). Attending to injured 'kids', is very troubling to the soul.
Also... one of a million things I regret as a parent... (tho a homeschooler..) is MORE TIME with family.. & not being within walking distance of home (from my job / grocery / library).
It is over in a FLASH!
That is really tragic to hear of those young teen girls losing their lives. I have a hard time even conceiving of such a horrific loss to both their family and the community. With two teen daughters of my own and a son that is 'learning' to drive it definitely gives one pause for thought. That is not something you think about when moving out into the country to get away from stuff like that - traffic problems, etc... It would 'seem' safer generally speaking with fewer people and cars to contend with - driving down a peaceful country road.
Do you attribute such terrible accidents to poorly designed roads which are more unsafe during inclement weather or other factors?
I did drive SR 14 east of Washougal once at night while there a few weeks ago and it felt like a death trap, literally. The loooong guard rail on the river side is only ~ a foot away with 'fast' driving oncoming traffic in the adjacent lane. That was one of the scarier two lane highways I've driven in a while especially in the dark with no street lighting. And I've driven many narrow roads in the mountains in dark before. But folks drive that road like a freeway only its not. It would not take much at all for two cars to collide with minimal room for error let alone larger commercial vehicles. Add in some alcohol, a cellphone call and watch out. The Oregon side on I-84 is a breeze by comparison.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 09-20-2018 at 12:56 AM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I attribute their accidents to 'spaced-out' drivers. (One was hit, one hit someone else)
A certain element of the driving population takes the role of guiding their missile, WAY too lightly.
These gals had head-ons, on a blind corner, in the night, while raining.
Most often death on rural road is a tree / pole / someone running a stop sign.
In rural SW WA, a 300' tall tree can fall on you and you will be GONE!
It is SO dark on rainy nights, your lights are mere candles.
ALL of my son's GF's totaled at least ONE car, my kids did not (thankfully).
Got girls.?.. get ALL the airbags you can afford. And a 'crumple' / throw away car.
BAN the radio / phone / distractions (passengers, and floppy things hanging from the mirror)
Teach them the Smith 5 rules and quiz them daily.
Send them out to lunch with the insurance adjuster / attorney at least 1x / yr. (war stories)
Trust you get them to age 26 without them killing someone.
My rural trauma instructor put his wife and kids in diesel VW's with side curtain bags My kids = NO airabgs, but they did buy Diesel Jettas (no airbags in <$100 cars)). (free fuel, NOT much required!) I have well over a MONTH on my current fill-up (1250 miles / tank).
I drive 2 lane SR14 everyday (several times... Semitruck to motorcycle). Very few accidents considering heavy truck traffic... but it is a HIGHWAY (less side roads).
It is a very WIDE and ez road compared to my trucking career in CO, SD, and WY 40+ yrs ago during college (think BRAKES!) and think LOTS of snow and wind. (kinda like the Gorge on one of the 10 BAD days // yr, but WY has about 10 NICE days / yr!)
Rural living is quite nice:
If you do 4H with your kids
If you are a home-body
If you have livestock
If you like / need QUIET! (watch out for dirt bike and gun shooting neighbors)
DOGS are always the WORST neighbors. (town or country)
if you are RETIRED and can stay home and enjoy your view...
Kids / activities / job?... view house, in town (semi rural lot if possible.)
I LUV my Gorge view and my gorge winds (I could enjoy life a LOT more without the 'Friends'(?) of the Gorge watching my every move...
1st choice rural would be those 5-7 private homes located within Teton National Park.
I should have bought on of those 40 yrs ago.
Grew up an a ranch next to RMNP in Estes Park. That was NICE (and windy)
I do think the rural roads around here are more dangerous than in many other places. It's partly or mostly to to geography and topography I think, but not entirely so. I used to bike all over the place on rural farm roads in Texas. Mostly they were much wider and less traveled because there is a much more dense network of rural roads every square mile or so. And the major rural roads all had huge shoulders that were a whole lane wide. People turning right would pull off onto the shoulder as they would slow down. I always had lots of wide nearly deserted roads to bike on.
Here there are far fewer rural roads because they mostly follow the rivers or historic wagon roads and there are few bridges because they are expensive to build. They are also much more curvy due to the hills and mountains. Also because of drainage they roadways are elevated way up on fill with deep ditches along the sides and barely any shoulder for walking or biking. So I get much more nervous doing cycling out in the country than I did in Texas. Around here you have to ride out in the traffic due to lack of shoulder and there are more cars because there are fewer country roads.
Add to that the frequent damp and dark weather winter weather and humidity so lots of people are driving around with foggy windows in dark foggy or misty settings on dark wet roads. So yes, I think the rural roads are unusually dangerous in the Northwest.
In the suburbs it is mostly different. Wide streets with bike paths and sidewalks. Good lighting. Etc. So yes, I'd MUCH rather have my teen driver learning to drive around East Vancouver and suburban Camas than out on those dark rural roads. Same goes for biking or walking or anything else.
I think there are other dangerous roads in other parts of Vancouver like maybe 4th Plain and Padden Parkway where people drive much to fast. But around Camas and the adjacent neighborhoods of East Vancouver it is pretty calm and the streets are decent. I don't recall seeing any wrecks right around here.
After many miles of driving and visiting various areas and homes over two days, my husband and I decided to stay put - I was sad to reject the job offer, but we feel it was the right decision.
We love the PNW, but we had a hard time finding a happy ground between suburbia and rural sites. We initially decided on rural over living in town, but the roads out past Camas (north and northeast) just freaked me out too much at night.
We look forward to visiting while passing through on future backpacking adventures! Thanks again for being so incredibly helpful.
After many miles of driving and visiting various areas and homes over two days, my husband and I decided to stay put - I was sad to reject the job offer, but we feel it was the right decision.
We love the PNW, but we had a hard time finding a happy ground between suburbia and rural sites. We initially decided on rural over living in town, but the roads out past Camas (north and northeast) just freaked me out too much at night.
We look forward to visiting while passing through on future backpacking adventures! Thanks again for being so incredibly helpful.
Sincerely,
April
There is a night and day difference between suburban and rural Clark County. Suburbia is pretty much like suburbia anywhere. It looks just like CA or TX or any other fast growing area. The only difference between a DR Horton subdivision in Clark County and one in say Plano TX is that they use more painted wood-look HardiePlank siding here in the PNW and more stone and brick veneer siding in TX. Otherwise the houses and streets are pretty much identical.
But the rural parts of Clark County were built when the area was truly rural and remote, long before I-205 or even I-5 existed and no one dreamed of commuting to Vancouver much less Portland. They are small rural farm-to-market and logging roads built in the 20s and 30s during the time of the Model T and Model A when people drove rickety old vehicles at 30 mph. And, for the most part they haven't changed much since then. And it is extremely unlikely that they will ever improve much because the costs would be absolutely astronomical.
I've found a place up Livingston mountain that seems great. We've 4 boys, oldest ia 12. The thought of running room is really appealing. I'm getting a sense for the rural roads. Any other strong opinions or thoughts about living that far back? (It's about 12min to Camas high, 16 to safeway on 4th plain).
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