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But the Vancouver waterfront seems to be improving that aspect at least in part. For the larger Vancouver area I didn't see as much of an emphasis on bike friendly streets or dedicated paths in many of the areas we visited. Though there is some here and there it seems like more of an afterthought. Hopefully that will improve over time. Conversely, when we were looking at Corvallis that was a huge selling point as a very bike friendly little college town.
Derek
It mostly has to do with development patterns. Most of Portland was laid out long before WWII with a mostly connected rectangular street grid except in the west hills where geography doesn't permit. That means all the streets are interconnected and it is relatively easy to map out bike routes on less traveled yet still connecting streets.
Much of Clark County was developed post WWII in a more suburban pattern where stand-alone subdivisions are intentionally designed to be unconnected with mostly loops and cul-de-sacs that funnel out onto a few major streets and highways. What that means is that all the car traffic funnels onto the main through streets like Mill Plain and Fourth Plain because all the adjacent side streets do not connect. This makes it much harder to accomodate retrofitted bike routes because the few connected major roads are generally at peak capacity with cars.
From what I have observed, Clark County does a reasonably decent job of designing bike and pedestrian infrastructure into new construction and developments. Certainly much better than I noticed back in Texas. It is the old existing infastructure built decades ago that is more problematic. Basically what it seems like is that the ancient network of country roads that existed pre WWII are all mostly quite narrow and lack shoulders much less bike lanes. You see this anywhere you go in the rural parts of the county. Part of it has to do with the amount of fill required to build up a highway in this part of the world to accommodate drainage and avoid flooding during the rainy periods. So the roadways are built way up on fill and the shoulders drop off steeply into drainage ditches. Due to the geography there are also not that many country roads. Bridges are expensive so there aren't many, and the roads mostly follow paths cut by streams and rivers.
What happens (and is still happening today) is that subdivisions mostly get built on private farm land along these old country roads and then just dump all the traffic out onto the existing old network of narrow country roads rather than forming a connected grid. One subdivison after another gets built next to each other but each is built by a separate builder and none of them form any kind of connected grid. They are all stand-alone little neighborhoods with no connections other than via the inadequate old network of country roads that were not designed for that purpose. Eventually the county and cities get around to widening and modernizing these old country roads with sidewalks and bike lanes and that sort of thing. But it takes a long time and they simply don't have the $$$ to keep up. The development fees paid by developers aren't really adequate to upgrade all the connecting streets and get spent on other things. So we end up where we are today with cars funneling onto a few old legacy country roads that can't handle the volume and that don't have any kind of pedestrian or bike infrastructure.
If you look at the road improvement priorities for cities like Camas they are well aware of this problem and are working to upgrade the legacy old country roads that still criss cross through the city like Macintosh Road and and sections of Brady Road on Prune Hill that have no sidewalks or shoulders and are dangerous for kids or anyone else to walk on. Once you get out of the city core the problem gets more acute. So if you buy into one of the new subdivisions further out like the Fern Prairie area it will probably be decades until the street infrastructure finally catches up to the development.
In my mind, the damage done by this sort of piece-meal suburban development will eventually need to be remediated by punching connections between all these unconnected subdivisions. It may mean ripping out houses in some places to punch through connecting roads, or punching through narrower bike and walking path connections between unconnected subdivisions. I believe Ridgefield is now requiring that new subdivisions have a certain percentage of green space with trails and that the trails connect between adjacent subdivisions. Unfortunately Camas didn't do this in the past so there are dozens of little stubby trails all over that don't really connect into any sort of comprehensive system.
Times are changing and I expect our childrens generation will chose to be less reliant on private cars for everything and there will be many new types of transportation devices emerging as battery and electric motor technologies advance. We are already seeing the start of that with all the rental scooters in Portland that have decent speeds and astonishing ranges of 10-15 miles. E-bikes (hybrid electric and pedal powered) are becoming more popular. I think that is only the start. But it will take a complete re-thinking of our transportation grid to accommodate them and a lot of retrofitting of paths and connections between existing developments so that smaller scale devices can avoid the major car-clogged highways. We are mostly going to have to live our lifetimes with the existing infrastructure that has been built up already. There is just too much of it and it is too costly and politically difficult to change it on any kind of scale. So we will be living for decades if not generations with what we have have alread built up today. It will be up to our kids and grandkids to eventually evolve the area into something different and better.
The city of Vancouver is actually much better than the surrounding more suburban towns. There is a reasonable grid of side streets that one can use for biking through most of Vancouver but you have to know where they are and really search them out. There is some signage and the city puts out bike maps you can download as .pdfs. And there are a variety of unconnected paths and trails around the city. The best and longest one by far is the burnt bridge trail which runs about 10 miles from east to west through the city. Along the Columbia River waterfront there are some paths in places but they aren't as long or as connected as on the Portland side. That is slowly changing.
The #1 thing the city could do to improve cycling in the area would be to upgrade Evergreen Highway (the old Highway 14) that runs along the river from Camas to downtown Vancouver in varous pieces and sections. Right now it is extremely narrow with virtually no shoulder and definitely no bike lane and the surface is a mess of potholes and broken and poor pavement. So what looks like a decent bike route on the map turns out to be very unfriendly to bikes in reality. Commuters from Camas and East Vancouver also use this as a shortcut when the main highway 14 is at a standstill so you have a lot of impatient commuters rushing down this narrow road at high speed during commuting times. It would be a hugely expensive proposition to upgrade the 20 miles or so of this highway with sidewalks and bike lanes and that would likely be violently opposed by lots of residents along there who want to keep it secluded and narrow but welcomed by many residents of the road who would welcome the improvements). But it would be my #1 priority along with making more pedestrian connections across or under highway 14 to the other parts of Vancouver. That would produce a great bike and pedestrian connection between Camas and east Vancouver to downtown Vancouver and Portland. But I also expect it is a decade or more away.
Anyway...rant off. MtSurfer is right about the less developed bike infrastructure on the Vancouver side. I'm just providing the background as to way. There are a lot of avid cyclists in Clark County. But there are only a small handful of bike shops mainly because they can't compete with the tax-free environment in Oregon. For big ticket items like bikes, most people are going to drive across the river to buy tax-free at one of the many many bike shops in Oregon and not stay local.
Thanks texasdriver and all. All very helpful and useful information. Such a difficult decision to make. First the retirement decision and then the 'where' decision. We both want to join a community where we can belong and be involved. We aren't the stay at home types so where we are is important.
Thanks texasdriver and all. All very helpful and useful information. Such a difficult decision to make. First the retirement decision and then the 'where' decision. We both want to join a community where we can belong and be involved. We aren't the stay at home types so where we are is important.
Best to all, Kim
Just off the top of my head, these are some of Northwest communities that would come to mind for me
Smaller towns
---------------------
Camas/Washougal WA
Silverton OR
Canby OR
McMinnville OR
Ashland OR (getting $$$)
Hood River OR
Whidby Island WA
San Juan Islands WA (very $$$)
Medium size towns
---------------------
Corvallis OR
Wenatchee WA
Walla Walla WA
Coeur d'Alene ID
Bend OR (getting $$$)
Sounds like a road trip is in order. There are a LOT Of small towns scattered about the Northwest that are pretty run down. For example, most of the towns along I-5 between Vancouver and Olympia hold little appeal to me (Kalama, Kelso, Longview, Centralia, Chehalis). You really have to see things with your own eyes.
We (or my parents) had some very old family friends who moved out from the east coast a decade ago to be somewhat closer to their kids. They sound kind of like you. Very artsy world traveler types. After obsessive research they chose Silverton OR and have been very happy with their choice.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9WsvXnFtGI My own parents have gone through a similar process and have chose Canby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpx9kLrNu3U because they wanted to be much closer to the Portland metro area.
When we moved back to the Northwest from Texas the place we almost chose over Camas was Wenatchee but that was as much for professional reasons rather than geography. The professinal opportunity there was very tempting. We did like the town though.
Last edited by texasdiver; 12-08-2018 at 12:24 PM..
When we were looking for a retirement home (from Texas) we had chosen the PNW for climate and natural environment but had some priorities... no big snow, easy access to major airport, easy access to medical services, no major traffic or congestion, easy access to retail shopping, within our budget, local government we could tolerate. It came down to the Vancouver area and we found what we wanted in Salmon Creek.
Continuing our search for where to retire closer to our kids in Portland. Ideally we would like to smaller town experience but one with resources, good food stores (choices other than Box stores). We like Portland but it seems a bit too high energy in some respects and big. We want a place where we can establish our own lives, but be close enough to them. We are considering Portland as well as Ashland, Hood river and Bend.
We don't know a lot about southern Washington and the Vancouver area. We have been to Vancouver several times but it seems to suffer from sprawl and feels very suburby. But am I missing something? Is there a quaint downtown that is active for retired folks? Been to downtown Vancouver but it seems sad and depressed. Are there other small towns in southern Wa we should be looking at?
We would like to be able to walk to local stores and ride our bikes when we can. We don't want to be isolated. Our budget max is 700K
Nice list, texasdiver. It's funny when you first mentioned Canby I'd never even heard of it before. Though we've visited Silverton on the way to the awesome Silver Falls SP. Couldn't help but notice the comments from the posted video on 'bike friendly' streets.
Just as Vancouver is growing to accommodate more folks who either work in Portland or have family there, it seems that towns south of Portland are doing so as well. Though I would imagine some growing more slowly like Canby when compared to others like Camas. At one point we really liked West Linn due to excellent schools and near proximity to Portland. But it became very expensive I think for similar reasons along with places like Lake Oswego. Now traffic has gotten really bad for folks who commute into Portland for work. Though for retirees I'm guessing it wouldn't be so bad.
For some like your parents traffic into Portland probably isn't a real issue if they can drive in off peak work hours from Canby.
Nice list, texasdiver. It's funny when you first mentioned Canby I'd never even heard of it before. Though we've visited Silverton on the way to the awesome Silver Falls SP. Couldn't help but notice the comments from the posted video on 'bike friendly' streets.
Just as Vancouver is growing to accommodate more folks who either work in Portland or have family there, it seems that towns south of Portland are doing so as well. Though I would imagine some growing more slowly like Canby when compared to others like Camas. At one point we really liked West Linn due to excellent schools and near proximity to Portland. But it became very expensive I think for similar reasons along with places like Lake Oswego. Now traffic has gotten really bad for folks who commute into Portland for work. Though for retirees I'm guessing it wouldn't be so bad.
For some like your parents traffic into Portland probably isn't a real issue if they can drive in off peak work hours from Canby.
Derek
Canby is south of Oregon City and just outside of reasonable commuting distance to Portland so it is still a bit cheaper than towns closer to the metro area and still has more of a small town feel rather than an overgrown suburb like you get with places like Tualatin. It's one of those All-American type small towns that does big 4th of July parades and that sort of thing. Has a couple breweries and restaurants and grocery stores so most of what you need locally without having to drive into Wilsonville or Portland. Not quite as upscale as Camas but may well get there in the future.
Yes, great list texasdriver I really appreciate it!! Several years ago we looked at a lovely 55+ community in Lacey outside of Olympia. We liked it a lot but have decided that 55+ is probably not for us. We want to live in a community with all ages and hope to give back doing something helpful in our retirement. We also don't want to have to drive everywhere which is the case for all retirement communities as they tend to be on cheaper land in the 'outskirts'.
Yes, many roadtrips will happen this spring. We are thinking we will need to rent somewhere before we buy as it is so hard to do from afar.
Yes, great list texasdriver I really appreciate it!! Several years ago we looked at a lovely 55+ community in Lacey outside of Olympia. We liked it a lot but have decided that 55+ is probably not for us. We want to live in a community with all ages and hope to give back doing something helpful in our retirement. We also don't want to have to drive everywhere which is the case for all retirement communities as they tend to be on cheaper land in the 'outskirts'.
Yes, many roadtrips will happen this spring. We are thinking we will need to rent somewhere before we buy as it is so hard to do from afar.
All these suggestions from y'all are so helpful!!
Let us know what you find. It will be interesting to see where you land after visiting a number of them.
Totally will, it could be awhile though!! So many things to consider! I am sure I will be back here asking more questions as we continue to explore!!
We seem fortunate that the real estate market is softening up there. We have been shopping prices in SE Portland for about 6 months and prices vary widely in a nutty way!! Very different than where we are coming from!!It will be nice to shop in a buyers market!!
kh
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