Camas

[Wellness]

If you drive by the mill with your windows down, you almost want to vomit out the car window right then and there!

[thirtysomething]

Well, Wellness, that is obviously your opinion (or reaction) to the mostly-mild smell of the papermill. I can assure you that I have never felt like vomiting...not even "almost"...from the mill. Yes, there are good days, and bad days, just as there are when you live by anything that produces a scent. Anyone who thinks they will *never* smell it is disillusioned, but it centainly is NOTHING like it used to be. And of course there is always the option of rolling your windows up, or not driving directly by the mill, at all.

I suppose we can be thankful it's not an animal rendering plant, huh?

[DaphneinMN]

We moved here from the midwest, and love it. Yes Camas is a sleepy, safe little town, but there is so much to do nearby. In 20 minutes you can be downtown Portland or on your way through the beautiful Columbia River Gorge; In an hour and a half you can be on the coast or on Mt. Hood, in three hours, Seattle. There is so much fresh, local produce available (and wild blackberries growing everywhere) in the summer and early fall--it is wonderful. I love being close to farms and hearing coyotes at night, but still being able to get my urban fix easily. The landscape here is stunning. Downtown Camas is charming, and there are some good restaurants. All that being said, the mill does stink, and I smell it frequently. I guess I have a sensitive nose. But it's not a reason not to live here.

[TimT]

We've lived in Camas for about a year-and-a-half now. We chose this area based primarily on the the reputation of the schools and it's proximity to 205/Portland.

The schools are as advertised. They are top-notch and children of all learning levels will be challenged and treated individually. We have been most happy regarding the schools.

Proximity to Portland via 205 is unbelievably easy. It's so convenient to get to the airport and East Portland. Getting to downtown Portland via I-84 is a bit more challenging due to the chronic traffic congestion going West on I-84 from 205.

The mill is a mixed bag. The smell is awful, there's no denying it. But it is not something that is omnipresent, nor is it usually something that can't be overlooked. I've gotten used to it, but my wife has not. It is an eyesore to be sure, and makes Camas look like any other industrial community--which aside from the mill it really isn't. Washougal is much more industrial. On the other hand, the mill contributes significantly to the community in both jobs and taxes. The tax base (created in large part by the mill) is one factor in the terrific schools.

The people are generally friendly and helpful.

There is a nice, quaint, and almost charming downtown. But recent developments have made this probably the most disappointing aspect of Camas. A revitalized downtown could be a draw. It could redefine Camas and create a new image from that of mill town to an upscale commercial district. But I fear this will never happen because of two things: one, there is no end in sight to the mill and as long the mill remains, it will be difficult to attract any major businesses to downtown Camas; and two, in a frighteningly short-sighted and commercially poisonous decision, the wizards of town hall approved the purchase and renovation of a huge storefront building in a prime retail location occupying nearly half of a city block to become a church! That's right! In a prime commercial location on the downtown mall, there is going to be a storefront church. The famous Liberty Theater already closed and there are shuttered businesses elsewhere. Allowing a church to come into this storefront location is possibly the worst idea I can think of in terms of future commercial viability, and virtually concedes that the downtown commercial district is dead. I wouldn't be surprised if unhappy business owners are making plans to leave as soon as possible. It's selling them out and truly unfortunate.

I think there needs to be a more comprehensive recycling program, and the town leaders need to be more forward thinking in terms of development and quality of life. There are way too many McMansions and too much sprawl on the east side of Prune Hill. There is no reason Camas cannot strive to be a safe, beautiful alternative to those in Vancouver or Portland who are tired of traffic and sprawl, but with a town hall who cannot see past tomorrow, I don't see it happening--it might already be too late.

Overall, it is a pretty nice town--very conservative, which was a surprise to us. But your children will receive a fine education, you will feel safe, and you will live in convenient proximity to Portland and Vancouver.

[hml1976]

Hmmmm....well I beg to differ. I hope Camas stays economically diverse. I think the mill and the people who work there add to the town and it certainly adds $ to our great public schools, which might not be so great if the mill should close.

As for being "very conservative" did you move here from San Francisco or downtown PDX? I've lived all over this country (and two other countries) and outside of France, this is the most liberal place I've ever lived, more liberal even than NYC. And I don't think most people hate churches as much as you seem to. Really this town has been around for a long time, I don't think its our place as newcomers to come in and make it into Boulder or Bellevue...its Camas and a lot of us like it the way it is.

[TimT]

hml1976:

Have you been to downtown Camas lately? Do you think that it looks healthy? Thriving? Vibrant? It looks like it's dying to me. It looks to me like there is no plan, no vision, no will, and no desire to bring it back to life either, and this resignation of commercial viability is epitomized by the decision to let this church come in and take over the downtown. The church will be the dominant feature on main street.

It really has nothing to do with whether a person "likes" or "dislikes" churches. It has everything to do with what serves as a commercial district. I personally know a person who WAS seriously interested in opening a shop in downtown Camas, but who immediately pulled the plug when seeing the church monstrosity that will occupy half a city block in a prime storefront location. In communities that support successful and thriving downtown micro-economies, their town halls would NEVER allow a church to occupy half of a city block right on the main street. It's a ridiculous decision that will drive a stake in the heart of this downtown.

And if this is the most liberal place you've ever lived, you need to get out more. As a reminder, 55% of Clark County voted against equality and for the destruction of government services in the last election--which is exactly the opposite numbers from the rest of the state.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TimT

hml1976:

Have you been to downtown Camas lately? Do you think that it looks healthy? Thriving? Vibrant? It looks like it's dying to me. It looks to me like there is no plan, no vision, no will, and no desire to bring it back to life either, and this resignation of commercial viability is epitomized by the decision to let this church come in and take over the downtown. The church will be the dominant feature on main street.

... In communities that support successful and thriving downtown micro-economies, their town halls would NEVER allow a church to occupy half of a city block right on the main street. It's a ridiculous decision that will drive a stake in the heart of this downtown.
.

I wouldn't rush to any concepts of how the presence of a church will destroy downtown Camas. As a previous / recent 4th Ave commercial property owner I have a bit of experience and vested interest in the revitalization, and have recognized planning and visioning problems for the last 30 yrs. The church is a vast improvement over 'Dodge City' which was very tough and exasperating for the operator of the Liberty, and the weekend evening culture of the street. I suspect the church will bring some additional activities and spending to town, but granted, it is not the best commercial use of the property. I suspect the church will be a shorter term occupant, and has actually made a huge capital investment in major improvements while staying within the 'architectural motif' of the area. They may also bring some 'yet-to-be-determined' commercial presence. There needs to be significant growth in downtown residents with money to spend in the heart of the city. There are significant plans for 3rd ave that will hopefully address this. The mill is really shutting down fast and I would not give it 10 yrs. JMHO, but it will take another 10 to redevelop the site. WHEN that is complete Camas will be a jewel and 10 min from PDX, with a delightful waterfront. It is just a matter of time and economics.

I am most disappointed in Camas Planning for various reasons, but they didn't do Justice to the city by allowing a large DR office / house to be built on a block that was adjacent to library and ideal for a community center / senior housing / center activity hub on the fringe of the core downtown. (i.e. bring people down into town, while preserving commercial storefront for commerce). Working with the planners and downtown visioning committee wore many of us property and business owners out. (several sold / left in the last few yrs). With new blood (energy) and a new vision Camas COULD spring to life. If they would realize the prime commerce for Camas lies in the downtown residents AND those to the east which must drive past it to get to Vancouver, they could strategically be more successful. (they don't even solicit comments for Washougal or non-resident property owners & they wouldn't allow us to comment when we asked to be able to do so)
BTW, Washougal and Gorge residents really hate to have to drive BY Camas to go and shop in Vancouver, (going clear to town...).

It was really hard to keep your tenants competitive and profitable in the Camas Downtown core. I got exasperated & sold and am taking my commercial $$ (and energy) elsewhere, I wish the best to those remaining, and hope they do well. (including the church & future theater operator ...)

[TimT]

StealthRabbit:

Thank you for your reply and valuable viewpoint. In our limited opportunities to choose a place to live prior to moving, we too saw the potential for Camas to be a jewel once the mill was gone. That's a big reason we chose it. And for the most part, we've been happy with our choice. But, I don't see the store-front church as a forward-thinking idea. Granted it will be a visual improvement from what was there, but come on, a church in your prime commercial district? They could have done better, or else they just didn't try. Unfortunately, I think a store-front church says a lot more about a community than a seedy bar--and the translation does not speak to commercial viability, or community support. Plus, with all of the tax breaks and status exemptions, churches seem to have a much longer shelf life than almost any other kind of operation. I'm not optimistic. But for this beautiful town with so much potential, I sure do hope I'm wrong--perhaps some day in the distant future.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TimT

StealthRabbit:
... but come on, a church in your prime commercial district? They could have done better, or else they just didn't try. Unfortunately, I think a store-front church says a lot more about a community than a seedy bar--and the translation does not speak to commercial viability, or community support. Plus, with all of the tax breaks and status exemptions, churches seem to have a much longer shelf life than almost any other kind of operation. ...

I think it was largely economics driven (from the church's standpoint) Lowest cost $$ / sf. This is yet another problem with Camas Planning (Very high impact and building fees, drive much development away). They also have some ugly taxes and utility payment procedures for land owners.

This church is very community focused and was a great addition to events this summer, so I trust they will be a good neighbor until the economic development process gives them a good return on their investment (sell or rent out the building). I think in light of the current capital markets it might be a 'blessing-in-disguise'. I hope so for Camas, the merchants, and property owners. The previous Long Term lease agreement on Dodge City was a significant detriment to the improvement of Downtown Camas. There is merit in having that barrier removed. I hope the church can use the facility for outreach and commercial venues and increase the evening street population of potential business clients. I don't think the church placement says anything too negative about the community, I just hate to see prime space used a few hours / week. Interestingly, I had several churches inquire to rent my place, and it would be a good use of the Liberty for 'off-movie' hours, BUT the owners are not ez to work with (a non-resident family trust). I will guess the church would have been happy to be able to rent the theatre after dealing with the school district for past several yrs. I would also imagine they would rather be putting their $$ into the community, than that building, BUT ... It will be a benefit to the community in the long run, we just need to get commerce enough to support businesses and rents (a tough order for today).