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There's a movement called the Cascadia movement, that wants to make BC, SE Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho a country apart from both America and Canada, so they can no longer support the wars and corporate hegemony the US has over the world.
What do you think of the idea? It's quite popular here in Oregon, but I have a feeling BCers would be less warm to it, since they have it pretty good and identify very strongly as Canadians. Even though you are physically so close to us, psychologically, you're probably closer to people in Ontario, NB, etc I would think?
But on the other hand, there's also western alienation. I wonder how strongly western Canadians feel about being 'ignored' by the east and if it makes them feel somewhat less 'Canadian' in identity compared to say the person from North Bay or Moncton. I know that as a west coast American I don't really feel too strongly American because Washington DC, NYC etc are so far away. A perfect example, here on the west coast 9/11 happened while most people were still in bed.
It's a preposterous idea. This Cascadia Independence topic has already been discussed to death here and the topic has always been introduced by Americans trying to push the idea onto BC to separate.
It's really annoying!
BC is NOT interested in separating from Canada, there is no "western alienation" and BC is not interested in getting involved in western united states political independence movement.
If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to form a separate country of their own that's their own business and it's for their own American political reasons and problems that have absolutely nothing to do with BC. Let them go ahead and do it on their own.
Here's a suggestion for the Cascadia Independence movement. If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to separate from USA maybe they should start thinking sensibly and consider requesting becoming provinces of Canada instead. They would have far more to gain from becoming Canadian provinces than they would gain from becoming a separate country of their own.
I cannot for the life of me understand why they have not already figured that out for themselves yet.
It's a preposterous idea. This Cascadia Independence topic has already been discussed to death here and the topic has always been introduced by Americans trying to push the idea onto BC to separate.
It's really annoying!
BC is NOT interested in separating from Canada, there is no "western alienation" and BC is not interested in getting involved in western united states political independence movement.
If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to form a separate country of their own that's their own business and it's for their own American political reasons and problems that have absolutely nothing to do with BC. Let them go ahead and do it on their own.
Here's a suggestion for the Cascadia Independence movement. If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to separate from USA maybe they should start thinking sensibly and consider requesting becoming provinces of Canada instead. They would have far more to gain from becoming Canadian provinces than they would gain from becoming a separate country of their own.
I cannot for the life of me understand why they have not already figured that out for themselves yet.
.
Here's the thing. I'd actually love for the Pacific Northwest to become a part of Canada since our culture is quite close to Canadian culture anyways. The thing is, the Canadian government is becoming more and more like the government of the USA every day. From joining the war on terror, to the tar sands, the Harper admin has set Canada back decades.
I'm not sure I really support secession though, I think Cascadia would be better as a sort of autonomous 'special' region.
Here's the thing. I'd actually love for the Pacific Northwest to become a part of Canada since our culture is quite close to Canadian culture anyways. The thing is, the Canadian government is becoming more and more like the government of the USA every day. From joining the war on terror, to the tar sands, the Harper admin has set Canada back decades.
I'm not sure I really support secession though, I think Cascadia would be better as a sort of autonomous 'special' region.
Hon, that's just your opinion, not necessarily a fact, and I think your opinion is ill-informed and stated from a biased American viewpoint. That doesn't mean it is the Canadian or British Columbian viewpoint.
I really think if you want to learn and understand more about BC and Canada you need to stop making comparisons between Canada and USA and stop making comparisons between apples and oranges. Try to start thinking of Canada as a whole entity, not a country divided and alienated within itself the way USA is, and as a whole entity that is a political and cultural entity totally separate from and unlike the USA political and cultural entity.
Ha! No, not under anything but extreme, extreme, no other option kind of circumstances. I grew up in Quebec, where separating isn't some idealistic pipe dream and I can tell you haven't really thought out the legal implications of what separation means. What portion of the federal debt would your states take on? What about citizenship and cross border families? Federal and military pensions? Assuming they didn't treat you like the confederacy, what leverage would your states have to insure the United States doesn't put you under international embargo and isolate you from foreign trade and diplomacy, like Iran or Cuba? And if the United States is divisible, so are your States. Some of your tribes or counties could be persuaded to remain part of the US and cut you off from strategic resources. No, you're not only in too weak of position to get yourselves a good deal in that situation, you're too weak to separate at all and BC likely wouldn`t be interested in the American wrath you`d be incurring if you tried it. BC can separate any time it wants if it has a referendum with a clear question where it gains a clear majority. States in the US that aren't Texas do not have this right, as the Civil War showed, and without any guarantee that the US would be friendly towards a new Cascadian country there's no way. You need to be friendly with the US to live on this continent, without trade with them you end up like Cuba. That's why it's so important for us to maintain a good working relationship and it has been for over a century.
Separation is a messy, bitter business that can only happen in very special circumstances. BC people might be interested if things got very bad for the West Coast in both countries simultaneously and it was so clearly worth it it outweighed the huge, painful costs that come of this very disruptive, uncertain kind of event. It's tough to pull it off with a society of bourgeois, first world people who have alot to lose.
Why dont you guys get the ball rolling and get SE Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho to secede from the union then when you are really successful you can make BC an offer it cant refuse. Then be ready for BC to refuse, from what most Canadians are seeing of the USA these days i doubt theres much America can offer Canadians to make them switch allegiances especially if this insanity is whats on offer http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...controversies/
Why dont you guys get the ball rolling and get SE Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho to secede from the union then when you are really successful you can make BC an offer it cant refuse. Then be ready for BC to refuse, from what most Canadians are seeing of the USA these days i doubt theres much America can offer Canadians to make them switch allegiances especially if this insanity is whats on offerhttp://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...controversies/ [Emphasis added]
To be fair to the original poster, jambo101, the new entity would no longer be part of America.
To be fair to the original poster, jambo101, the new entity would no longer be part of America.
If this new hypothetical country could demonstrate an ability to drop the current partisan political hysteria it may have a chance at luring BC into a new union of states, keeping up the present laughable political debate in America will get a resounding but polite no thank you when asked to join.
It's a preposterous idea. This Cascadia Independence topic has already been discussed to death here and the topic has always been introduced by Americans trying to push the idea onto BC to separate.
It's really annoying!
BC is NOT interested in separating from Canada, there is no "western alienation" and BC is not interested in getting involved in western united states political independence movement.
If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to form a separate country of their own that's their own business and it's for their own American political reasons and problems that have absolutely nothing to do with BC. Let them go ahead and do it on their own.
Here's a suggestion for the Cascadia Independence movement. If Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho want to separate from USA maybe they should start thinking sensibly and consider requesting becoming provinces of Canada instead. They would have far more to gain from becoming Canadian provinces than they would gain from becoming a separate country of their own.
I cannot for the life of me understand why they have not already figured that out for themselves yet.
.
I completely agree with the above. British Columbia is very proudly Canadian and will remain so. I wonder how US-Canadian relations would be affected if Alaska, Oregon, Washington and Idaho defected to Canada
If this new hypothetical country could demonstrate an ability to drop the current partisan political hysteria it may have a chance at luring BC into a new union of states, keeping up the present laughable political debate in America will get a resounding but polite no thank you when asked to join.
No. There's not a chance of a snowball in hades of them luring BC into anything like that. BC would not benefit from such a union, only those states would benefit from having BC join them and they would have nothing of benefit to offer to BC. It's not just about disapproving of their political insanity, it goes beyond that, including the fact that BC is a very royalist province and the idea of abandoning Canada, Canadian people, our parliamentary system of government, the monarchy and the commonwealth is unthinkable to BC'ers. You can bet your bottom dollar that none of those states would want to have a constitutional monarchy for a new country, the very idea of that is just as repugnant to them as leaving our country, monarchy and the commonwealth and joining them would be repugnant to BC.
It's also recognition of the fact that those states are only interested in BC as a crutch to hold them up and as a bridge to Alaska, plus both BC and Alaska have more natural resources that those lower states would like to capitalize on. Lumber, fisheries, mining, etc. Can you just imagine the monopoly they'd claim on the west coast fisheries and lumber industries alone? They only want BC for profiteering off the geographical space and the natural resources that BC represents, not because they're interested in having 4 million British Columbians join them in a new country. Having the resources to capitalize on would be a feather in their cap - the BC people, not so much. They want the empty spaces provided by BC so that they can spread out more into BC with their urban planning and integration of millions more people, and that's an invasion of space by millions of extra people that BC'ers do NOT want. It gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about it - what a nightmare. It's not only a preposterous proposal, it's insulting to the intelligence of British Columbians.
Then there is all those things that Bimbam mentioned for why separation would be a messy, bitter business. I really don't think those people pushing for the Cascadia Independence movement have taken all those things into consideration.
Even Alaska is not interested in the Cascadia Independence movement, they think it's ridiculous. However, I could see where Alaska might eventually want to join Canada sometime in the future. Alaska has more resources in common and more of a mindset, culture and lifestyle in common with Canada than it does with the lower 48.
None of this as stated below is a good enough reason for BC to join them, BC already has all this plus a comfortable sense of place and security in being part of Canada and we do not have to contend with the American PNW's dissatisfaction with their eastern government - their political dissatisfaction has nothing to do with us and we're not interested. From that wiki link:
Quote:
Description of the movement
There are several reasons why the Cascadia movement aims to foster connections and a sense of place within the Northwest region and strive towards independence. The main reasons stated by the movement include environmentalism, bioregionalism,[6], regional integration and urban planning, a dedication to open source, dynamic and associative governing models, an expansion of civil liberties, freedoms, digital privacy and a dissatisfaction with governments in the eastern part of the continent that continue to become more impersonal, secretive and non-representative, a strengthened social safety net, fiscal responsibility, and a strong devotion to human rights
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Last edited by Zoisite; 07-11-2012 at 01:37 AM..
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