Moving to Vancouver (best city, rental, employment)

[ubringliten]

Originally Posted by movingwiththewind

kkgg, don't forget that you compared Vancouver to many places at the same time, picking something from each place (LA, SF, NYC, and so on) that maybe as good or better than in Vancouver. For example, you compere California's weather to Vancouver's, NYC shopping to Vancouver's etc. It is not fair, in my opinion. Of course, Vancouver alone cannot beat all of those places taken together in all aspects: Weather, food, cost of living, shopping etc.). Would you, however, compare Vancouver just to one of them, say only to NYC, only to SF, only to LA, and so on, and than let's see how much better those places are comparing to Vancouver one on one. You know what I mean?

I agree!

[ubringliten]

KKGG7,

I have lived in LA for most of my life, NYC for 2 years, SD for 2 years, and have visited SF more than enough times. There is no way all of those cities can be compared to Vancouver separately. I think another thing I have to mention is "national healthcare". Healthcare is a right, not a luxury or privilege, but that's not how Americans see it. I see this as a product of good people and good people make the surrounding nice to live in.

What do you like about NYC?
Pros: lots of jobs, charming neighborhoods, excellent night scene, great shopping, and art scene
Cons: dirty, very low quality of life (I made 6 digit salary and I lived in Spanish Harlem!), food poisoning pretty often, everything is about money, "dog eat dog world".

Conclusion: Low quality of life trumps all the pros.

What do you like about LA?
Pros: lots of jobs, entertainment industry, pretty nice beaches, excellent night scene, excellent Asian cusines (I still think Vancouver is better, you got Hong Kong chefs, for crying out loud).
Cons: ghetto, sprawl, materialistic (worst culture to be in) and rude, car culture (yuck).

Conclusion: ghettofied (is that a word) makes you hate the city because no one cares.

What about SD?
Pros: beaches and weather, again, beaches and weather
Cons: conservative, even more sprawl than LA with car culture, worst food of all the cities I have lived in, ugly scenery (brown everywhere) and no art culture at all

Conclusion: no way I want to live in a conservative city (it's never going to become liberal because military presence is too established).

And SF?
Pros: great scenery, lots of jobs, pays pretty well (but doesn't mean anything because it is one of the most expensive cities to live in NA), decent art scene, liberal
Cons: foggy summer (no four season weather), expensive, just way too many rich people, becoming NYC lite

Conclusion: like NYC, way too expensive...

I am not worried about Vancouver not paying much because an average Joe can get by and most importantly, he's content. For example, I see bus drivers are regular people and they are freaking nice! Can't believe how nice they are. I don't see that in any of the cities I have described. The bus drivers in US cities are grumpy and usually of people of lower class. That's what America is all about. All the low-end jobs are for low-class people. It is very obvious in the US. I have a Swedish friend, and she said that even though they get taxed 56%, the average person is being taken care of from cradle to grave. It's the intangibles that makes Vancouver much better than any US cities.

You mentioned European cities. Do you wonder why Vancouver always get mentioned in the same breath as Zurich, Geneva, Sydney and Vienna? It's because Vancouver is that awesome. The only other city that I know of that can be compared to Vancouver is Zurich, but then again I will have a hard time emigrate there and fit well into their society. It's too different than the US.

ubringliten

[ubringliten]

Forgot to mention,

Vancouver has the lowest crime of any major US cities.

[kkgg7]

Originally Posted by ubringliten

KKGG7,

I have lived in LA for most of my life, NYC for 2 years, SD for 2 years, and have visited SF more than enough times. There is no way all of those cities can be compared to Vancouver separately. I think another thing I have to mention is "national healthcare". Healthcare is a right, not a luxury or privilege, but that's not how Americans see it. I see this as a product of good people and good people make the surrounding nice to live in.

What do you like about NYC?
Pros: lots of jobs, charming neighborhoods, excellent night scene, great shopping, and art scene
Cons: dirty, very low quality of life (I made 6 digit salary and I lived in Spanish Harlem!), food poisoning pretty often, everything is about money, "dog eat dog world".

Conclusion: Low quality of life trumps all the pros.

What do you like about LA?
Pros: lots of jobs, entertainment industry, pretty nice beaches, excellent night scene, excellent Asian cusines (I still think Vancouver is better, you got Hong Kong chefs, for crying out loud).
Cons: ghetto, sprawl, materialistic (worst culture to be in) and rude, car culture (yuck).

Conclusion: ghettofied (is that a word) makes you hate the city because no one cares.

What about SD?
Pros: beaches and weather, again, beaches and weather
Cons: conservative, even more sprawl than LA with car culture, worst food of all the cities I have lived in, ugly scenery (brown everywhere) and no art culture at all

Conclusion: no way I want to live in a conservative city (it's never going to become liberal because military presence is too established).

And SF?
Pros: great scenery, lots of jobs, pays pretty well (but doesn't mean anything because it is one of the most expensive cities to live in NA), decent art scene, liberal
Cons: foggy summer (no four season weather), expensive, just way too many rich people, becoming NYC lite

Conclusion: like NYC, way too expensive...

I am not worried about Vancouver not paying much because an average Joe can get by and most importantly, he's content. For example, I see bus drivers are regular people and they are freaking nice! Can't believe how nice they are. I don't see that in any of the cities I have described. The bus drivers in US cities are grumpy and usually of people of lower class. That's what America is all about. All the low-end jobs are for low-class people. It is very obvious in the US. I have a Swedish friend, and she said that even though they get taxed 56%, the average person is being taken care of from cradle to grave. It's the intangibles that makes Vancouver much better than any US cities.

You mentioned European cities. Do you wonder why Vancouver always get mentioned in the same breath as Zurich, Geneva, Sydney and Vienna? It's because Vancouver is that awesome. The only other city that I know of that can be compared to Vancouver is Zurich, but then again I will have a hard time emigrate there and fit well into their society. It's too different than the US.

ubringliten

Thanks Ubringliten.
I agree with you on most of the pros and cons and those US cities actually. But are San Fran and NYC being expensive any different from Vancouver, which simply has too few jobs, I mean real jobs that lead to a great careers for people with Master's or PhD degrees, not admin or librarian sort of jobs that just help to make a living, and pays too little. Doesn't that play an important part of "quality of life"? People seems to intentionally ignore this drawback when talking about how nice Vancouver is. I'd say this is more important than most of its pros, at least for me personally. Zurich is probably comparable, yet one should keep in mind that average salary there is even higher than NYC, and it is one of world's major financial centers.

About bus drivers being nice, I'd agree with you. However, it is a common thing with small cities. Everyone in small cities are nicer, friendlier and people in larger cities tend to be colder as there is less personal space and more stress. You can't expect bus drivers in Tokyo to smile and chat with you each time as he seems tens of thousands of passengers each day.

I don't think there is anything wrong with lower end jobs being taken by lower class people (assuming they exist), simply because higher class people have to opportunities to do the higher and jobs. Vancouver's cab drivers may be not that low class, maybe because they have Master's degree from another country but still can't find a job he or she wants?

What's good about average people being taken care of, from cradle to grave? Sounds nice if all the money comes from the government itself, not other taxpayers who actually work hard. A society should show significant wealth difference (not too extreme) so that poor people have the incentive to work harder and make more money, instead of thinking "why bother look for a job, I don't need to pay a cent if I get sick, and the rich pays me tons because I am poor". Such society seems nice and fair on the outside, but in the long run, it loses global competitiveness, as as you said, the wealthier pay 60-70% of tax, why would them want to work harder? All extra income goes to the poor eventually anyway so that they can live comfortably. Additionally, only smaller countries can afford to do that. Can you expect countries with over 100 million people to take care of everyone from cradle to grave?

I admit that I have significant social and economic view from most here. I don't like the "everyone is taken care of by the government" sort of society, it simply means "be free to be lazy as others will subsidize you anyway". A society should promote competition, and encourage the desire to be successful, place sufficient pressure on each citizen because they have to work to earn everything, and try NOT to provide everything one needs even he/she simply chooses to do nothing. The poor shouldn't be encouraged to be lazy and the rich shouldn't be punished for be successful. In the end, why would anyone want to be a PhD and Sr engineer if he ends up living in the same neighborhood as his plumber?

[movingwiththewind]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

In the end, why would anyone want to be a PhD and Sr engineer if he ends up living in the same neighborhood as his plumber?

What is wrong with that? Dude, wanna some sort of segregation? What is wrong with plumbers? You think they are less important than PhDs and engineers? This kind of thing already exist. It's ugly. You must be joking!

[ubringliten]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

Thanks Ubringliten.
I agree with you on most of the pros and cons and those US cities actually. But are San Fran and NYC being expensive any different from Vancouver, which simply has too few jobs, I mean real jobs that lead to a great careers for people with Master's or PhD degrees, not admin or librarian sort of jobs that just help to make a living, and pays too little. Doesn't that play an important part of "quality of life"? People seems to intentionally ignore this drawback when talking about how nice Vancouver is. I'd say this is more important than most of its pros, at least for me personally. Zurich is probably comparable, yet one should keep in mind that average salary there is even higher than NYC, and it is one of world's major financial centers.

About bus drivers being nice, I'd agree with you. However, it is a common thing with small cities. Everyone in small cities are nicer, friendlier and people in larger cities tend to be colder as there is less personal space and more stress. You can't expect bus drivers in Tokyo to smile and chat with you each time as he seems tens of thousands of passengers each day.

I don't think there is anything wrong with lower end jobs being taken by lower class people (assuming they exist), simply because higher class people have to opportunities to do the higher and jobs. Vancouver's cab drivers may be not that low class, maybe because they have Master's degree from another country but still can't find a job he or she wants?

What's good about average people being taken care of, from cradle to grave? Sounds nice if all the money comes from the government itself, not other taxpayers who actually work hard. A society should show significant wealth difference (not too extreme) so that poor people have the incentive to work harder and make more money, instead of thinking "why bother look for a job, I don't need to pay a cent if I get sick, and the rich pays me tons because I am poor". Such society seems nice and fair on the outside, but in the long run, it loses global competitiveness, as as you said, the wealthier pay 60-70% of tax, why would them want to work harder? All extra income goes to the poor eventually anyway so that they can live comfortably. Additionally, only smaller countries can afford to do that. Can you expect countries with over 100 million people to take care of everyone from cradle to grave?

I admit that I have significant social and economic view from most here. I don't like the "everyone is taken care of by the government" sort of society, it simply means "be free to be lazy as others will subsidize you anyway". A society should promote competition, and encourage the desire to be successful, place sufficient pressure on each citizen because they have to work to earn everything, and try NOT to provide everything one needs even he/she simply chooses to do nothing. The poor shouldn't be encouraged to be lazy and the rich shouldn't be punished for be successful. In the end, why would anyone want to be a PhD and Sr engineer if he ends up living in the same neighborhood as his plumber?

Hey, let's not get into politics here. We will disagree all day. Yes, Vancouverites get paid little, but every socialist democratic countries get paid little. They don't like the wide separation from poorness to richness. And every Danish, German, French, Swedish, Norweigens, Dutch, are doing fine. They believe in well beings. They don't think like Americans and I like that a lot about Europeans. It is not about money, it's about being content because like they all say "money can't buy happiness".

Vancouver is not a small city. You have to go by density. Vancouver has 14K/sq. mile, that is more than LA (8200/sq. mile) and SD (4200/sq. mile) and the public servants there are no nicer than Vancouver.

[stone-ground]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

In the end, why would anyone want to be a PhD and Sr engineer if he ends up living in the same neighborhood as his plumber?

Yeeikes! .. now this is a really tough one to swallow, in my books. Hard to believe you actually put that down in print.

Funny enough, doubt that this type of thinking would actually enter the PhD or engineer's mind .. the fact that they may be living next door to a plumber. You never know, the plumber could be the one making the big money, with the more extravagant, expensive house.


This is from another one of your posts, sorry but lack the skills on how to copy more than one quote at a time .. without losing my post.

kkgg7/quote:
[Vancouver's climate in general is pretty bad. It is good only by Canadian standards, which doesn't really count. Vancouver pretty much doesn't have a real "summer" (over 30C), and its long winter is pretty depressing unless you are a big fan of the rain and cloud. In terms of weather, San Diego, US or Nice, France beats Vancouver by a million miles
Great food. Really? You can have Japanese or Chinese food with the equal quality if not better, at half the price in Los Angeles or San Francisco or even New York. Those who rave of Sushi in Vancouver must have not eaten elsewhere. The 8.99 rolls you ordered is sold at 4.99 in many other places and they taste equally good. Trust me, it is true.
Beaches, do I need to mention Santa Monica, Santa Babara, San Diego or the entire Florida? And for exactly how many month you can actually swim in the freezing water?
Outdoor. Again, LA or San Fran pretty much has everything Vancouver does, hiking in mountains, or go ski within 2 hours drive. Seattle is surrounded by Pacific Ocean and mountains too by the way. No, Vancouver is not that unique.

Let's talk about something Vancouver does NOT have.
First and foremost, jobs and decent salaries. If you make 50K in Vancouver, you probably can make 80-100K in San Fran with the same qualification.
Shopping. Vancouver's shopping destination is extremely limited. the small SOHO in NYC is probably larger than the entire Vancouver shopping area. Robson Street, really? People think Robson is a big deal must have never been to Fith Ave, or Michigan Ave, or Melrose Ave, or Market Street, or many and many.
Night life, close to like zero. You can argue vancouver is more outdoor rather than club scene any way you want, but the fact is there is limited availability even if you want to.
Culture, what culture? Don't tell me yoga, first it is Indian stuff and second it is not like you can't do yoga elsewhere.]



This was an exceptionally hot summer, almost hitting the 40' mark for awhile, but you're correct in saying on the average, 30' is more the norm.

If it was hotter here, I couldn't stand it myself. I think a lot of people that live here like the fact that it's not too hot for the majority of the summer. We're not used to that kind of heat.

Vancouver does have great food, some of the best in the world. Because it's so multi-cultural, we have some of the best ethic foods to choose from all parts of the world.

If I see a sushi roll over the $4 mark, unless it's some special extravaganza of some sort, I wouldn't be eating there either. I don't see how a visitor would have the time to scope out the really great little places of both quality food and reasonable prices. Takes a lot of experimentation, trial and error, and also tips along the way in newspaper articles from time to time to find these places, etc.

Half the time it's the little-hole-in-the-wall', or 'mom and pop' places that have the best food with the most affordable prices. These are not probably the first place someone visiting would try, in my mind, .. probably opt for something more fancy with prices to match.

When I'm travelling or visiting, very seldom do I happen along great places to eat. If fact, I'm thinking of writing a book on where not to eat.

I'm not saying that Vancouver is so unique, when compared to all the places you've mentioned, but in Canada, it is very unique .. mostly because of the milder climate compared to the rest of the country.

I'm no expert on the salary thing, but was surprised many years ago to find how much higher wages were in the US compared to Canada, but when you don't know any different, it's just not something we worry about I guess. What can we do about it? Unless every Canadian refused to pay taxes all at once, maybe something could be changed, but don't see that happening.

Robson street for shopping?!! I think the last time I shopped on Robson St was about thirty years ago in some funky little Indian shop where they had neat wrap-around cotton dresses for about $20.

The times have changed for sure, and it's super expensive now. It's pretty much geared toward tourism and big money now. A lot of downtown is, and there are super expensive shops all over the place.
There are lots of shopping places, but you would have to know the city to know where to go. I would say that most people who live in Vancouver, do not go to these places to do their shopping.

As far as the night-life goes, yes it's a given that Vancouver shuts down earlier than many places, even other Canadian cities such as Toronto and Montreal. But again, if you haven't known any different, doesn't seem an issue. Not sure what time the clubs are open until anymore, but in my day seem to remember 1:30 or 2:am? Then there were always the 'after-hours' places that were very obscure, with no names or advertising on the door, etc., again, not probably where someone visiting would know where to go.

Your last comment regarding the fact that there is no culture other than yoga relays to me that you really don't know Vancouver at all, as it's a city known for it's diverse and multi-cultures. In fact, it one of the most interesting aspects of this place. I don't know that there's enough time for one even living here to learn all there is about all the diverse cultures that make up Vancouver.


It's not my intention to dog-pile or put down your posts, but I think you see the city from a different aspect if you actually live here for awhile than from a view point of someone visiting now and again.

As you and others have mentioned, it's not perfect by a long shot! We have many problems here, especially the homeless and drug addicted. Because of the mild climate and more lenient drug laws here, people from all over the world come here, because they can usually stay alive sleeping on the streets and standing in food line-ups provided by volunteers and charity.

Our politics suck. It is an expensive city to live in, and has gotten worse over recent years.

I'm not sure there is the perfect place or city to live. Most do have their own problems also, don't they?

I think the majority who live in Vancouver, love it for the lifestyle it allows them to lead. Money isn't as important to many as leading a happy and healthy life.

Many an American friend have mentioned the difference between the work ethics of the US and Canada .. how everyone is expected to work, work, work with smaller regard to their free time.

It's whatever one desires .. work to make lots of money with little time off to enjoy life, or work less with less money, but more time and freedom to do things that make you happy.

just my opinion of course ..

[ubringliten]

We Americans are known to work to live, whereas Europeans and Canadians live to work. I hear this from everywhere I have met people in places that I vacationed.

When I vacationed and interviewed in Vancouver this past May and September, respectively, I thought it has the most international bunch of people. This gives me the worldly feeling that I am connected to the world and that this place must be great to live besides the native Canadians. I met bunch of Germans and Japanese people during my interview, and they love this city. I mean, these MDs can go to US to be trained, but they chose Vancouver. Yes, US universities do attract lots of internationals but they are attracted because the training is excellent, not because of the city.

Life is a gift, and you only get to live it once, and I want to make the most out of it.

Stone-ground, club scenes are pretty decent in Vancouver. EDM world-renowned DJs frequent this city as much as SF, NYC, and LA. I clubbed there and I loved it. It closes at 4am in the morning, and I see people walk to nearby places to eat after it closed.

[onthefly]

Europeans and Canadians live to work

How is that good? Is that a typo?

[ubringliten]

Originally Posted by onthefly

How is that good? Is that a typo?

Yeah, that sounds bad. Europeans/Canadians work to live which means they make money to enjoy life.