School Ratings? (spring break, to rent, credit)

[specificnorthwest]

Hi,

I'm trying to find any websites, etc that rate & review various elementary schools in Vancouver (or BC/Canada at large) and maybe allow for parent/student feedback?

Basically something like

GreatSchools - Public and Private School Ratings, Reviews and Parent Community

But for Canada/BC/Vancouver?

The only thing I've been able to find is the Fraser Institute, but that to me seems heavily biased towards private schools? (I can't imagine public schools being so bad - or are they??)

Maybe I'm being a paranoid American/New Yorker, where the gap between two schools a few blocks apart can be so great that it starts stressing parents before a child is even born . Perhaps this is less of an issue for you guys? I know Canada ranks pretty high on all these international rankings, should I interpret that as most schools being strong academically, with a few great and not so great outliers? (again, focusing more on public schools).

Any help & feedback would be appreciated..

Specifically I would be interested in public elementary schools in and around downtown Vancouver..So if you have specific information on any of those feel free to reply or DM me.

THANKS!

[Robynator]

You're right, there's nothing really like that, at least nothing that I'm aware of.

And you're right about the Fraser Institute. Not only are they completely biased, but I don't trust their methods. Somebody in another forum I use wrote the following, which I agree with:

"There should be a pop up disclaimer whenever the Fraser Institute is mentioned. It could contain things like "not an equivalent to the school ranking authorities in the UK", "political lobby group", "tests only selected schools so as to skew the rankings", "inadequate data available to it to allow proper ranking". That sort of thing, just in case someone takes it to be an objective evaluator of scholastic performance."

It's unfortunate that the Fraser Institute is the most famous of its type. They rank all schools' academic achievements as if every school was equal in curriculum, funding, or policies. Of course, this isn't the case. For example, most private schools have exclusive policies where they'll only select the highest achieving students while rejecting those with learning disabilities or those who score lower on exams. Most private schools require the students to write entrance exams before being admitted. Of course, public schools accept everyone, regardless of ability (or disability).

For the most part you'll find that the standard of education in public schools throughout Vancouver and its suburbs are equal... you're going to get a good education regardless of the public school. I don't think it's like New York, so you don't need to stress. Nobody here stresses about what school they're going to send their kid to. The rule of thumb in Vancouver and its suburbs is that the local public school will do. It's where everyone (for the most part) sends their kids.

You typically never hear "oh, don't go to that school - it's a BAD school". But you might hear, "Go to McRoberts because it has a great music program" or "go to Richmond High because it has a fantastic basketball program". etc.

The schools in Vancouver and its suburbs draw in their students from the local catchment area, and this will affect the school's demographic. But it doesn't affect the quality of the education or the quality of the teachers or the quality of the school. It just affects the mix of students. For example, some areas are home to more first generation immigrants, which is reflected in the demographic of the school, and can mean that a large percentage of its students will be attending ESL classes in addition to their regular classes.

And although all public schools are good, they are not all equal in what they offer. For example, my parents enrolled me in the Late French Immersion program while I was in grade 6. When I entered grade 8 (the beginning of high school here), since there was no French Immersion program at the local high school in my catchment area, my parents had to apply to send me to a school outside of the catchment boundary... and this is quite normal if there's a special program you want to send your child to, but it doesn't exist nearby. And sometimes those schools with specialized programs do tend to attract the most academic students. I know that my high school in Richmond (a suburb of Vancouver) was one of the most academic and rated one of the highest because of that French Immersion program.

Now there are some differences in the infrastructure of public schools.

Some schools are in newly built buildings, others are in old heritage buildings built in the 1920's or so. Some public schools have speciality programs (Montessori, French Immersion, Mandarin Immersion, etc.) that other schools do not. Some schools are next door to community centers and can take advantage of the community center's facilities. Some schools have larger outdoor sports fields than others. And some schools do vary in the classes that they offer. Some have a really broad and varied science program, offering classes beyond the standard chemistry, biology, physics, and computer science. others have a really diverse language program offering not only French and Spanish, but Japanese, German, Mandarin, Hindi, Arabic, etc. Others offer an extensive arts program with lavish field trips to England, France, etc. However, this is not reflected in the Fraser Institute's report.

But I digress.

Those kind of issues should be kept in mind if you are going to bother with the Fraser Institute reports. They'll give you some hints on how the school achieves academically on paper, but offers little in context otherwise.

Note that public school funding doesn't come from the city, it comes from the province, so hypothetically, poor neighbourhoods don't have less funding for their schools vs. affluent neighbourhoods. And all schools follow the same core curriculum, which standardizes the standard of education across the province.

This is where private schools differ. Private schools aren't subsidized - they're completely funded by the parents of the students, and typically kids that go to private schools do so not so much because the education is superior quality (although this is often what's believed), but because of lifestyle reasons. They'll go there because a) their parents want them to have a religious education, or b) they want their kids to network with kids of other highly affluent families. Needless to say, Vancouver, being one of the least religious cities in Canada, private school is not the norm for most kids.

Most private schools here are beyond the reach of the average family in Vancouver... again, it's more to do with prestige than actual quality of education. And in that way, the price of tuition for a private school isn't worth the difference in quality of education. But there is definitely more money flowing into private schools than into public schools, no doubt. However, the money is flowing outside of the classroom as well. If you send your child to a private school in Vancouver, they'll be surrounded by students that fly to Paris for spring break, buy Chanel grad dresses, drive Porsches at the age of 16, and head up their ski chalet each weekend in Whistler. Not to say that you won't get that in public schools either (you do, especially in places like West Vancouver), but it's the every day in Vancouver private schools. So it's a matter if that's the social environment you're looking for.

You might find some more info here:

Education - Province of British Columbia

If you're seeking public schools downtown (like Elsie Roy Elementary, for example) this page might be of interest to you:

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/reporting/...ta_summary.php

[specificnorthwest]

Thank very much for the thorough response!

One quick follow-up : In public schools, do high performing students get sectioned off into '"advanced/gifted" classes or programs?...or even allowed to skip a a grade?...or is the norm to keep a mix of students together..

[Robynator]

Do higher performing students get sectioned off into advanced/gifted classes? No, not usually. Not from my experience/observations in public schools. However, it doesn't mean that their talents and achievements aren't recognized. They might be given more challenging assignments or might be given more responsibilities in the class. There are also a lot of extracurricular activities, clubs, and the like that students participate in. Peer counselling, student council, volunteering, etc.

I think it really depends on the class, the teacher, and the individual school.

And for whatever reason, if the student was achieving well beyond their years and they were seriously unhappy and under challenged, well... that would be a circumstance where you'd probably want to discuss options with the teacher and principal... they're usually open to discussing different options with the student's best interests in mind. I mean, if there are private schools for exceptionally gifted children, that could be an option. Again, it's not the norm from my experience. I have never seen a student leave the public school system because it wasn't challenging enough.

In my experience, students that are high achievers aren't sectioned off into their own exclusive club - they do stay in their classes and mix with others. They are often role models and excel in not academics, but sports, the arts, etc. And they'll usually be more heavily involved in the school. Most classes, again, in my experience, have a good mix of high achievers, low achievers, and middle of the road students.

Some kids do skip grades, but it's unusual... it's usually done early on in elementary school and that student then sticks with their peers for the remainder of their education. I remember going to school with people who were a year younger than me because they had skipped Kindergarten.

In elementary school it's also normal to have split grade classes. A grade 2/3 split, for example. Or a grade 4/5 split. In elementary school I was in a grade 2/3 split class. It's not something that you necessarily choose, however I'm sure if you feel your child is overachieving in elementary school, they can often be placed in a split grade class and then can do the other grade's assignments. Again, it's something you'd have to discuss with the school.

Now, there's a lot more flexibility in the high school level. In the last two years of high school you can really excel ahead well beyond your grade. There are advanced placement classes which are equivalent to first year university courses. Somebody in grade 11 can take a grade 11 class in term one, take the grade 12 class in term 2, and if they want, they can take the advanced placement class in summer school or the following September. A lot of students do take summer school, not because they failed, but because they can advance ahead and earn enough credits to skip a year of university.

So there are certainly options.

I think it might come down to discussing that with the principal and see what their philosophy is. I think a lot of it has to do with how they assess the student. Canadian public school systems don't just focus on book smarts/academics, but they highly emphasize social skills as well with the ultimate goal of producing well-rounded individuals who contribute to society.

[specificnorthwest]

thanks again, you've been very helpful.

[Zephora]

Hi Robynator, you've explained it all so well!
I have a question for you: my daughter will be attending University next year, and she wants to do graphic design or desktop publishing. Which University would you recommend in BC? She says she learned about a University in BC that offers a great program, but she forgot the name. She says that the University of Saskatchewan (we live in Saskatoon) isn't offering much in graphic design. So which one would you recommend in BC?

I'm also wondering how far the Universities are from Pitt Meadows or Maple Ridge. Those are two neighbourhoods I'm considering to move to, but I'm also thinking about Abbotsford. Is the University of the Fraser Valley a good one for graphic design/desktop publishing?

Thanks!

[Robynator]

You're welcome specificnorthwest!

What I'd probably do now is to look up the downtown schools and send them an e-mail with specific questions. Explain your situation. I'm sure they'd be happy to assist you.

Zephora,

I did my undergrad at UBC and didn't study graphic design/desktop publishing, but I did look into it. I did minor in art history, which is a department of the school of fine arts, so I am quasi-familiar with it. Unfortunately I don't know the name of the graphic design program, but I'm sure you can look it up on the UBC website.

While UBC does have a good fine arts program, the real famous graphic design school is actually Emily Carr (formerly Emily Carr Institute of Art & Design, but now it's a full on university). It's located on Granville Island, which is essentially downtown. If your daughter's really interested, I'd look into that. It's a real serious art school with a sole focus on that kind of thing.

UBC is great too, don't get me wrong, but she may wish to look into Emily Carr as an alternative.

I'm not too familiar with the University of Saskatchewan to make a comparison, nor am I really fmailiar with the University of the Fraser Valley either. When I went to school at UBC, I worked with a guy who lived in Maple Ridge and he had to wake up at 5am and leave shortly after to make his 8am shifts/classes. The commute would be brutal for a student, in my opinion. It would be 2+ hours one way at least. While you might be living in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows, it might make more sense for your daughter to rent a house with a group of friends somewhere nearby campus. However, if that's not a possibility, then just be aware of the long, long commute. However, she'll get a discounted transit pass with her UBC tuition, so at least there's that.

How about Simon Fraser University? I don't even know if they have a fine arts program, but that university's out in Burnaby on top of Burnaby Mountain. They'd be a lot closer to somebody living in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows. A lot, lot closer.

[Zephora]

Thanks, Robynator, and also thanks for replying to my personal thread about Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge. Zoisite, who has lived in those two places, confirms that SFU is closer. Now I should probably email SFU to find out about their graphic design program. I'll also look into Emily Carr. Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I really appreciate it.

[Zoisite]

Here's something else to look at too:

CMEC - Education in Canada: An Overview (http://www.cmec.ca/pages/canadawide.aspx - broken link)

home page: CMEC - Home (http://www.cmec.ca/Pages/Default.aspx - broken link)

One additional comment - there is West Coast Rail and Sky Train commuter transit now from Mission through Maple Ridge on the north side and Surrey on the south side that go into Vancouver for people commuting into Vancouver to work or to other schools, and to Emily Carr.

.

[fvmm]

My experience in looking at public schools in Canada is that BC schools fall short as compared to those in Alberta and Ontario; when I need public school I'll likely ultimately leave BC.