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I couldn't believe what he wrote - that you have to drive through the U.S to get from Vancouver to Toronto and than adding - not acceptable for a first world country... Hmmm looks like someone is reaaaalllly into the B.C Bud instead of just looking at a map of Canada.
It is truly bizarre. The funny thing is, that when American friends visit me here in Vancouver, one thing they talk about is how well kept and clean things are. From the buses, Skytrain, roadways, etc. They notice a difference.
I know the first time I went to NYC and took a bus from La Guardia to Manhattan, in 1992, I was shocked at the crumbling sidewalks, patched up roadways, dirty tunnels etc.
I've heard it's better now...but I haven't been in years.
I also have driven all over the western US and know that not everything is some utopian infrastructure lovers paradise.
I also know that there are some very well kept road and highways in the US, especially in Oregon.
The same in Canada. So to have someone living in the US point fingers is, well as I said, bizarre.
Obviously Google or MapQuest give you approximate driving times in average conditions, obviously in case of traffic things can change dramatically.....still, from a pure infrastructure perspective, often going through he US is faster (again in average conditions)
However, for your own convenience, if sometimes you want to take the I-90 route to go to Spokane you can avoid Seattle traffic altogether, Hwy 203 to Hwy 2 to I-5 (off I-90 in Snoqualmie and into I-5 in Everett) entirely bypassing I-405.
On weekends, Seattle traffic off I-90, along I-405 and I-5 north never get bad enough to force you under the speed limits, it is a non issue.
...but I then have to deal with the boring drive on I -90 to Spokane. Fewer towns that have any interest...and mostly fast food joints to eat from.
The other nice thing about approaching Spokane from the north, besides the beautiful drive in the Kettle Valley, is that US 395 has a couple of nicer towns, like Colville, to get things.
Not acceptable for a first-world country. If you want to go from Vancouver to Toronto by car, you only have one option which is going to the US and taking I-90.
In regards to I - 5 in Seattle, I totally disagree. It cuts through the city and is an eyesore. Walking from downtown to Capitol Hill is a noisy, and ugly experience.
You can barely see it from even a moderate distance, you often need to literally be next to it.
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As far as livability, we would have to agree on what we mean when we talk about livability. For me, it means walkable connected neighbourhoods that don't have dark under passages that freeway ramps create. It's not having to put up noise barriers to protect residential areas from noise.
For you...that is a very personal and quite restrictive view.
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It's not having bigger and bigger roadways which only attracts more cars. The widening of Highway 1 in Burnaby all the way to Surrey is already reaching capacity. Build it and they will come.
Freeways are not the answer.
I would love when I go to Whistler from Seattle not to have to go through surface roads and ton of traffic lights (and without center turning lanes which drives me crazy).
The closest I can get to a freeway link is Hwy 91 (Annacis Island) and then I have to go though New Westminster.
Last edited by saturno_v; 08-09-2015 at 03:20 PM..
...but I then have to deal with the boring drive on I -90 to Spokane. Fewer towns that have any interest...and mostly fast food joints to eat from.
That was not the point.....the discussion was about time...I can get from Seattle to Spokane through Hwy 2 or Hwy 20 to Hwy 395....very very beautiful scenery and little towns...it just takes much longer.
I-90 drive is quite beautiful from Seattle up to the Columbia river crossing (almost half way), it gets very boring after that.
Last edited by saturno_v; 08-09-2015 at 03:20 PM..
You can barely see it from even a moderate distance, you often need to literally be next to it.
For you...that is a very personal and quite restrictive view.
I would love when I go to Whistler from Seattle not to have to go through surface roads and ton of traffic lights (and without center turning lanes which drives me crazy).
The closest I can get to a freeway link is Hwy 91 (Annacis Island) and then I have to go though New Westminster.
I - 5 is still an obstruction which one has to get over to walk to other neighbourhoods. There are worse examples in other cities, though.
Imagine if Vancouver had the same thing cutting through downtown....ugh.
No, my view is a common one and one shared by experts.
Again...where would you put this freeway for YOUR convenience ? Along English Bay to a wider newer Lions Gate Bridge...cutting up more of Stanley Park?
In the case of Vancouver it's NEVER going to happen. UNLESS, there is a hugely expensive tunnel built from where the current freeway ends to where the Sea to Sky Highway joins up.
I know that Quebec is known for it's failure at keeping it's infrastructure in top shape compared to the ROC, perhaps this taints your view.
People in B.C. DO NOT have to use another countries infrastructure. Total and absolute B.S.
Chinese rapidly replacing...hmmmm. First generation immigrants tend to hold on to old ways. Second, not so much. They're as Canadian and as Vancouver as you can get.
They aren't forced at gunpoint to us the U.S. infrastructure, but sadly it is preferable to do so rather than use our own Canadian infrastructure. This is also true with airlines, because Air Canada has a tendency to rip us off making it often a better choice to drive to the nearest American airport and fly from there.
I - 5 is still an obstruction which one has to get over to walk to other neighbourhoods.
There is no obstruction...you either walk over or under, you cannot hear freeway noise just half block away (not even that)
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Originally Posted by Natnasci
No, my view is a common one and one shared by experts.
No is not...what "experts"??
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Again...where would you put this freeway for YOUR convenience ? Along English Bay to a wider newer Lions Gate Bridge...cutting up more of Stanley Park?
In the case of Vancouver it's NEVER going to happen. UNLESS, there is a hugely expensive tunnel built from where the current freeway ends to where the Sea to Sky Highway joins up.
A freeway connection to the Hwy 1 can be done outside Vancouver proper, close to that area I was mentioning (Annacis/New Westminster)
Vancouver could use some smart underpass, a proper upgrade of the Lions Gate Bridge (at some point a double deck was proposed) instead of the ridiculous one was carried out in 2001 and maybe a third connection to the north shore via tunnel.
I do not see the usefulness of a fully fledged freeway going through downtown...just better access roads and some infrastructural elements.
They aren't forced at gunpoint to us the U.S. infrastructure, but sadly it is preferable to do so rather than use our own Canadian infrastructure. This is also true with airlines, because Air Canada has a tendency to rip us off making it often a better choice to drive to the nearest American airport and fly from there.
Again Pbeau its geography.. If it is a shorter distance to get from point a to b going through the U.S than people will go through the U.S.. Its not about crumbling infrastructure or lack there of.. You could build 70 interstate like highways crisscrossing all of Canada and in the case of getting from Vancouver to Toronto it would STILL be faster and shorter distance to go through the U.S.. What part of the show don't you understand?
In the case of driving from Toronto to Montreal - you'd have to be a complete IDIOT to drive through the U.S.. It would take longer, its a longer distance plus you have to go back and forth through Customs..
As for Airport usage - you might want to look at the growth statistics of Canada's largest airports even compared against the largest in the U.S - YOY growth rates are very healthy.. Pearson International Airport is expected to be the first Canadian airport in history to break 40 million pax this year. When you break 40 million pax you are considered in the big leagues for any global airport in any country. There are larger and more airports in the U.S for one reason - 9 times the population... I have a number for you Pbeau - 9...
They aren't forced at gunpoint to us the U.S. infrastructure, but sadly it is preferable to do so rather than use our own Canadian infrastructure. This is also true with airlines, because Air Canada has a tendency to rip us off making it often a better choice to drive to the nearest American airport and fly from there.
Forget about roads for a moment. What other infrastructure do Canadians use that is not Canadian?
Airports are an interesting subject. I suggest you look at how funding of airports in Canada differs from that in the U.S.
Airlines pay more in Canada to use airports etc...so they will be more expensive to fly. On the other hand our major cities of Vancouver and Toronto have beautiful airports because of the way they are funded. Most major airports in the US are hell holes. Even look at Honolulu, shameful really. NYC is finally going to upgrade La Guardia and I believe JFK as well....but currently it's a bit of an embarrassment.
I flew once out of Seattle years ago because of a price difference. I swore I would never do that again. Any money save was soon lost on travelling to Seattle, border line ups, and that sinking feeling when you are on your way home and you land 2 1/2 hours drive away from home.
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