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Old 04-20-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,702,779 times
Reputation: 3625
I'm pretty sure that honest transportation engineers have finally realized that freeways are a blight. The last freeway built into LAX from "the inland empire" (yuk!) was plugged up on it's second day after opening. Freeways also assume endless growth in the car population. Now, we're a fiercely independent lot, us North Americans, and we want to go when and where we want, completely independent of the rest of the hoards. So there will always be a market for a limited occupancy transportation module (ain't semantics wonderful!)

I retired from GM' s engineering group about 4 years ago, and all I saw were "innovations" towards more efficient but still "limited occupancy personal vehicles". There were some innovations that would allow a personal vehicle to merge into an automated "freeway" type limited access system, but that only perpetrates the same mass freeway model.

Having spent time in Tokyo, I'd also say their model is flawed as well: impersonal, vastly crowded and you get to be treated like cattle. I'm waiting for them to adopt 60kV electric cattle prods over there to get more onto their subways!

The problem is, quite simply, over-population and the resulting uncontrolled density factors in cities like Vancouver or LA. What if, for instance, we limited population densities and where, in general, you can locate? if you keep the overall population levels to a reasonable level, you can do that without it creating a concentration camp mentality. But if we just look the other way and let 'em all reproduce like locusts, you won't like the results.

Just watch Bejing in the coming years. They are rushing headlong into emulating our own out-of-date model. Why I'm not sure. Jealousy? The determination that we're so much more "urbane" and sophisticated than their recent-past rural agrarian model? it will afford the opportunity for the masses to bulk up on cheap material goods bought at a Chinese Wal-Mart and then crammed into their new cars? The Horror... the horror.....

With computers at home allowing you to do your work in your PJs, why rush towards mass movement into and out of a city every 8 - 10 hours? The potential for catastrophic event disruptions is frightening (earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, social issues...). The reliance on an artificial and susceptible system is equally disturbing.

Vancouver has a chance, if they can afford it, to bypass such innane and antiquated thinking. Hopefully they will take that opportunity!
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
1,040 posts, read 3,930,758 times
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Well-written post rifleman.

The answer to most of the world's problems today is the result of overpopulation and a model based on perpetual growth. The Earth can only support so many people.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:22 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 2,270,170 times
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Vancouver has no freeways? Sounds pretty awesome, actually.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 6,702,779 times
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Default "Why officer; Whatever do you mean by "You shouldn't be out here, sonny!!"

Well, yes it does. Two. One's The Trans-Canada. Highway One. (Or is it the 401? Or is that in Toronto? I can't remember. I no longer live there). The other's Highway 99 from the Blaine border crossing up into Vancouver via Burrard. also a mere two lanes each way. By comparison, the Ventura Freeway in Encino is what; 8 lanes in each direction?

BTW, good bedtime story for my kids: when the Trans-Canada freeway was almost finished in the early '60s, all two lanes each way of it, but not yet opened, we took my friend's semi-fast go-kart down and I launched it eastbound from Boundary Road towards the Port Mann bridge. About, oh 15 miles or so.

Eventually, we had our own dedicated ( and much faster...) RCMP escort who were going to throw the book at us, but realized they just had some creative teens out on a roadway that no-one else was on. And I was, after all, even going just under the already sign-posted speed limit of 60 mph. Probably the only time I'll have a complete freeway system to myself! At the time, 45 or 50 mph seemed pretty fast, out there in the direct windstream, no helmet and that close to the ground...

Anyhow, that was the last effort up there at building anything like a freeway. There's literally no room anywhere else, even worse than, say, Seattle. They could have built one along the north side of the Fraser out to, say, Mission, but to what end? It's crowded enough out that way already!

Not having freeways has sort of limited growth and home location options. Which is sort of good, IMHO.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:19 PM
 
Location: British Columbia, Canada
1,823 posts, read 1,783,835 times
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Well said Rifleman, thanks for your posts.

.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
9,216 posts, read 12,535,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryCities View Post
I really hope Vancouver gets some good freeway systems going because as much as I hate them, Vancouver is not a small city and will not be getting any smaller either. It needs something like this. I know what it's like to be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in the downtown core. It is ridiculous to think that everyone will use public transit instead of taking their car. It's unrealistic. I know Vancouver isn't big enough to be called a LARGE CITY but it is big enough to be an average city and cities that are even smaller than Vancouver have freeways.
no what sucks is people turning left with no advance light so they hold up
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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There needs to be a better connection to North and West Van. The Lions Gate and Second Narrows have traffic way over exceeding capacity and it's not going to slow down. Either metro/rail or another bridge or tunnel across the inlet as their are only 2 connections to the sea to sky and the LG bridge is only 3 lanes.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:50 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,616 times
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If there were more lanes on the Lions Gate bridge, then there would be more development on the North Shore. If there was more development on the North Shore, then those new lanes would get just as jammed up as the current lanes or worse.

To those of you making the argument that a large city needs some kind of highway connection, you're right. There are freeways going up to and around Vancouver, just not right through it. Just look at the map; it's not like the trucks can't get to where they need to go. I think most people still drive to work in Vancouver and they're not that much worse off than those who drive to work in Seattle, which has I-5 running right through the downtown.

I think the comments suggesting that Vancouver needs this or that to be successful are kind of funny. The city is thriving, and its current prosperity is proof that whatever Vancouver doesn't have, it doesn't need.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:26 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,541,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbluegreen View Post
If there were more lanes on the Lions Gate bridge, then there would be more development on the North Shore. If there was more development on the North Shore, then those new lanes would get just as jammed up as the current lanes or worse.
So it's ok for current residents to be there but let's not encourage new residents to live there also, huh?
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
7,307 posts, read 7,865,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbluegreen View Post
If there were more lanes on the Lions Gate bridge, then there would be more development on the North Shore. If there was more development on the North Shore, then those new lanes would get just as jammed up as the current lanes or worse.

I think the comments suggesting that Vancouver needs this or that to be successful are kind of funny. The city is thriving, and its current prosperity is proof that whatever Vancouver doesn't have, it doesn't need.
Too much of a comfort zone. It's been made clear and my opinion has actually swayed not to build freeways through the city, although a spur freeway/ramp connection to the east end of downtown from Canada Hwy 1 would certainly be nice, but I guess the city is doing fine without it. The North Shore will certainly grow so at the very least perhaps make an urban rail connection to North and West Van from downtown? Yeah I know expensive, but plenty of cities of Vancouver's calibur has taken on massive enginerring undertakings. Just forward thinking, The city just showcased themselves to world and hosted an Olympics, it's surely going to grow substantially larger.
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