if Vancouver is that bad ,,why it is world most liveable city (ski resorts, renting)

[Egyptian2009]

Hi All .

I am a new landed migrant considering Vancouver as a place to start because of ( Temperate climate and global ranks ) but i was faced with some advices from many people that starting at Vancouver would not be good idea so i thought to clarify whether you see the below as accurate or no


1-it is nearly impossible and very taught to find a job ( casual one / bookkeeping / accountant assistant) specially with my new landed migrant status and no Canadian work experience or qualification


2-even if i found i will earn barely CAD 2000 per month which will not be enough to cover my family cost ( me and my wife)


3-Vancouver weather is not so good as i imagine because it is always rainy and overcasting and cheerless specially in winter where almost no sun exist

4-Vancouver is not much safe as many other places in Canad as Toronto and Calgary

5-presence of big Asian and Chinese population and low Arabian and Muslims population will not make me comfort as if i was in Toronto for example

i will appreciate your guidelines

[hobbesdj]

Originally Posted by Egyptian2009

Hi All .

I am a new landed migrant considering Vancouver as a place to start because of ( Temperate climate and global ranks ) but i was faced with some advices from many people that starting at Vancouver would not be good idea so i thought to clarify whether you see the below as accurate or no


1-it is nearly impossible and very taught to find a job ( casual one / bookkeeping / accountant assistant) specially with my new landed migrant status and no Canadian work experience or qualification


2-even if i found i will earn barely CAD 2000 per month which will not be enough to cover my family cost ( me and my wife)


3-Vancouver weather is not so good as i imagine because it is always rainy and overcasting and cheerless specially in winter where almost no sun exist

4-Vancouver is not much safe as many other places in Canad as Toronto and Calgary

5-presence of big Asian and Chinese population and low Arabian and Muslims population will not make me comfort as if i was in Toronto for example

i will appreciate your guidelines

Because the "worlds most liveable city" rankings are always biased and written according to a given set of rules. For example, the climate might not be a factor for the rankings, but you yourself might find it a huge factor in ranking the city. They take into account things they want to take into account, and everybody has a different idea of what a "liveable city" is. Like you, I found out the hard way and ended up living in Canada's "liveable cities" only to find that the rankings were completely slanted. So in short, they are completely biased.

[kkgg7]

Originally Posted by hobbesdj

Because the "worlds most liveable city" rankings are always biased and written according to a given set of rules. For example, the climate might not be a factor for the rankings, but you yourself might find it a huge factor in ranking the city. They take into account things they want to take into account, and everybody has a different idea of what a "liveable city" is. Like you, I found out the hard way and ended up living in Canada's "liveable cities" only to find that the rankings were completely slanted. So in short, they are completely biased.

Vancouver is very livable for rich people indeed. If you are not, the ranking is pretty much worthless to you. On the other hand, for rich people, what is not livable.
Ottawa has snow for 6 months of the year, but apparently, that's very "livable" for human beings, even better than San Francisco and Paris.

[movingwiththewind]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

Vancouver is very livable for rich people indeed. If you are not, the ranking is pretty much worthless to you. On the other hand, for rich people, what is not livable.

So what is the percentage of rich people who live in Vancouver to the total population of the area, do you think? Just give me a rough number. And what is the rest, who are not rich (if there are any) are doing there? Dreaming about a better place to move / to live? How does this magic place, in your opinion, look like? What is your idea of a perfect place to live for not rich people?

[smihaila]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

Vancouver is very livable for rich people indeed. If you are not, the ranking is pretty much worthless to you. On the other hand, for rich people, what is not livable.
Ottawa has snow for 6 months of the year, but apparently, that's very "livable" for human beings, even better than San Francisco and Paris.

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

[kkgg7]

Originally Posted by movingwiththewind

So what is the percentage of rich people who live in Vancouver to the total population of the area, do you think? Just give me a rough number. And what is the rest, who are not rich (if there are any) are doing there? Dreaming about a better place to move / to live? How does this magic place, in your opinion, look like? What is your idea of a perfect place to live for not rich people?

It is hard to tell in statistics how many rich people are there because these people's wealth is measure by their existing asset, not income. If you find numbers about the distribution about Vancouverites income, that doesn't mean much simply because many don't have to work for a living. You can deny it all you want, but if you walk in many areas of Vancouver, you see an unusually high percentage of luxury cars vs. say more blue-collar working city like Toronto.

Well, it is pretty straightforward just by looking at property prices here, isn't it? Vancouver and Seattle are very alike in many aspects, and Seattle has so many international companies (Starbucks, Boeing, Microsoft....), jobs etc, but housing prices is so much lower, why do you think is the reason, that Vancouver is so "livable" that people all ditched their jobs and paychecks and rush there? How many really have a "career" to talk about in Vancouver?

As a non-rich person, a livable place first has to offer lots of jobs (and good careers) in various industries, in finance, high-tech, engineering, research, manufacturing etc, which can provide incomes commensurate with the local living expenses, esp property prices. Then it needs to be safe and clean, offers plenty of amenities (shopping, eating, museums etc) at reasonable prices, with a good public transit system. after that it comes to interesting neighborhoods etc. The existence of ocean and mountains doesn't necessarily make a city more "livable", because first not everyone thinks that's important and second when it usually comes at an even higher premium in costs, it actually hurts "livability".

In sum, I believe for average Joes, economic factors (income vs. price) is the most important determinants in livability. We don't go hiking or surfing every day or even every week, but we need to pay for something every second.

I think those rankings are ridiculous because it seems to think everyone comes with unlimited financial resources and all he cares about is how beautiful and healthy this city is. New York city is ranked pretty low, almost close to 50, but it attracts more people than other North American, even those from more "livable" cities, why? Because it offers plenty of jobs, high income, and opportunities. Most people would choose a 80K salary along with congestion, noise, some dirty streets and work stress and pay for 800K houses over a $40K salary which comes with ski resorts , fresh seafood and the pacific ocean which they may not afford to enjoy but nevertheless has to pay for 800K houses.

Don't get me wrong, I love Vancouver. I will visit it when I have the time and money, but will never live there. It is like Tahiti is like paradise, but I will never consider permanently relocate to that place.

[movingwiththewind]

Originally Posted by kkgg7

It is hard to tell in statistics how many rich people are there because these people's wealth is measure by their existing asset, not income. If you find numbers about the distribution about Vancouverites income, that doesn't mean much simply because many don't have to work for a living. You can deny it all you want, but if you walk in many areas of Vancouver, you see an unusually high percentage of luxury cars vs. say more blue-collar working city like Toronto.

Well, it is pretty straightforward just by looking at property prices here, isn't it? Vancouver and Seattle are very alike in many aspects, and Seattle has so many international companies (Starbucks, Boeing, Microsoft....), jobs etc, but housing prices is so much lower, why do you think is the reason, that Vancouver is so "livable" that people all ditched their jobs and paychecks and rush there? How many really have a "career" to talk about in Vancouver?

As a non-rich person, a livable place first has to offer lots of jobs (and good careers) in various industries, in finance, high-tech, engineering, research, manufacturing etc, which can provide incomes commensurate with the local living expenses, esp property prices. Then it needs to be safe and clean, offers plenty of amenities (shopping, eating, museums etc) at reasonable prices, with a good public transit system. after that it comes to interesting neighborhoods etc. The existence of ocean and mountains doesn't necessarily make a city more "livable", because first not everyone thinks that's important and second when it usually comes at an even higher premium in costs, it actually hurts "livability".

In sum, I believe for average Joes, economic factors (income vs. price) is the most important determinants in livability. We don't go hiking or surfing every day or even every week, but we need to pay for something every second.

I think those rankings are ridiculous because it seems to think everyone comes with unlimited financial resources and all he cares about is how beautiful and healthy this city is. New York city is ranked pretty low, almost close to 50, but it attracts more people than other North American, even those from more "livable" cities, why? Because it offers plenty of jobs, high income, and opportunities. Most people would choose a 80K salary along with congestion, noise, some dirty streets and work stress and pay for 800K houses over a $40K salary which comes with ski resorts , fresh seafood and the pacific ocean which they may not afford to enjoy but nevertheless has to pay for 800K houses.

Don't get me wrong, I love Vancouver. I will visit it when I have the time and money, but will never live there. It is like Tahiti is like paradise, but I will never consider permanently relocate to that place.

What you're saying makes sense. However, you forgot one thing. Every city, Vancouver included, has expensive and more affordable areas to live. For example, I'd say, Kitsilano, Yaletown or Coal Harbour are more upscale, whereas West End, Mount Pleasant or Commercial Drive are more affordable. Now, those more affordable areas are not run down areas as those affordable areas you would find in NYC or SF. They are still very nice and livable and vibrant, with low crime, great commercial areas and with the same access to the ocean, mountains and other great things that Vancouver offers and which are free for everybody who lives there. Things you cannot buy if you live in other places. Also, I realized, shopping in those areas is much less expensive than in the upscale areas, starting with grocery stores and so on. Because they cater for residents of those areas who are ordinary people, including recent immigrants who don't have lots of money to spend.

What I'm saying is you can live in such wonderful place as Vancouver and still be able to manage pretty well on $40,000. I just saw a bachelor's appartment in the heart of Kits for $850! You just need to find your place, like in every city. For example, when I first moved to NYC, I was shocked! I thought I'd never be able to survive there. Now, when I tell other people NYC can be very cheap, they probably think I'm insane.

Yes, Vancouver is full of luxury cars, especially in touristy areas, the only areas tourists like you and me come to see in Vancouver. However, this is just a small area of the city, adjacent to the downtown. But if you give yourself some time to explore and look beyond those areas, you will see that Vancouver is more than that.

Now, everything I said before is only true if you OK with renting. You know, like people in NYC or SF. The majority there are renters. However, I think, you are talking from the point of view of somebody who wants to buy property. In this case, yes, forget everything I said before. In this case, Vancouver is very expensive and only for rich. I personally am OK with renting. I'd rather spend my life in a place I love renting than in a place I don't care about where I can buy property. It's my choice. For example, I'd never leave NYC for pretty much everything else in the US as cheap as those other places were, even if they paid me more. I'm one of those few who would take a paycheck cut to live in Vancouver rather than in a dirty noisy polluted place with higher paycheck.

You're saying you love Vancouver but would never move there permanently. I think, you just limited yourself right from the beginning. All those immigrants found and continue finding their place in Vancouver, SF, Toronto, NYC and so on. They just make it happen. And it works for them, well, at least for some of them, for many of them. Those people who risk and do things get rewards at the end, I think.

Too many people chose to live somewhere they don't like or even hate for some reasons that, in reality, are not even important. So many people on CD forum, a lot of them Americans, saying things like "I love Vancouver and would move there in a hearhbeat if I could afford it"... Well, that just sounds to me looking a reason not to try. At the end, we decide if we can afford it.

But yes, Vancouver is expensive. No question about it.

[van69]

The image of Vancouver has not been updated.In the 70's ,80's & before,it was livable as it was affordable.But not now,too expensive.Plus homelessness,crime,drug problems,etc have increased.
Outsiders only see a nice poster/hear from others of vancouver with mountains,ocean,shiny new buildings.The reality does not match the image...

[Swan Dive]

is hard to tell in statistics how many rich people are there because these people's wealth is measure by their existing asset, not income. If you find numbers about the distribution about Vancouverites income, that doesn't mean much simply because many don't have to work for a living. You can deny it all you want, but if you walk in many areas of Vancouver, you see an unusually high percentage of luxury cars vs. say more blue-collar working city like Toronto.


WHAT !?


LOL been in vancouver 11 years, now this is just total bunk

[Swan Dive]

vancouver is a white trash mecca I live in the false creek area and Im still unimpressed about the skid loser culture of this city.