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Old 04-12-2012, 11:54 AM
 
2,727 posts, read 707,839 times
Reputation: 7004

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty View Post
Because vegans and vegetarians post in the Food and Drink forum.
I'll post wherever I want to post and I assume that's the opinion of the majority of people.
Just because someone is a vegan or vegetarian doesn't make them the least bit better/above anyone else.
Rainroosty, no one said you shouldn't post here as long as it keeps the "rules" of this forum (i.e. not discussing nonvegetarian recipes or giving veggies a hard time for their choices). Nor did anyone say that they were better/above anyone else. Where did you get that from? It's just a choice we have made because it's the right one for us.

But---your equating vegans/vegetarians posting in the general Food and Drink section to nonvegetarians posting in the veggie section isn't entirely valid. By default, veggie eating is part of general Food and Drink (for instance, when there is a thread discussing favorite teas or fruits or what people are eating that day). But nonvegetarian eating is NOT part of vegetarian eating......

 
Old 04-12-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
16,392 posts, read 13,054,060 times
Reputation: 72210
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
Rainroosty, no one said you shouldn't post here as long as it keeps the "rules" of this forum (i.e. not discussing nonvegetarian recipes or giving veggies a hard time for their choices). Nor did anyone say that they were better/above anyone else. Where did you get that from? It's just a choice we have made because it's the right one for us.

But---your equating vegans/vegetarians posting in the general Food and Drink section to nonvegetarians posting in the veggie section isn't entirely valid. By default, veggie eating is part of general Food and Drink (for instance, when there is a thread discussing favorite teas or fruits or what people are eating that day). But nonvegetarian eating is NOT part of vegetarian eating......

To be courteous I will respond - what you say is not entirely true, because:

I have been reprimanded by moderators for posting in this forum....people were posting in a thread here about a woman's husband, who wanted to eat his meat and people here were posting about how to trick him into eating what he would think is meat...and not tell him....to lie to him.
So I merely posted that they should let him eat whatever he wants to eat.

I was reprimanded for that.

There have been vegans/vegetarians posting in the Food and Drink forum
trying to push their beliefs on us folks that eat other things....and, to be honest, I have seen our worthy moderator(s) remove their posts for doing so.

Anyway, people that are vegans/vegetarians DO think that they are "above" the rest of us - at least, most do - they think that we are somehow neanderthals, ignorant, cruel, stupid, blah, blah, blah.
I say that because I have had to deal with that. Call a spade a spade.

Moderator cut: Deleted WAY off-topic comments

People need to be kind and eliminate the differences between them. That is where I am coming from. You are welcome here and we are welcome there. All of us, equally.

But that would mean world peace, and as we all can see, that does not look very likely.

I will not post in here anymore.
Thank you for listening and replying!
~rainroosty~
Sorry, Julia......

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 04-12-2012 at 12:50 PM..
 
Old 04-12-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,122,267 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I am not trying to argue, but I would like to say something.

You say you have nothing to learn from omnivores, and that's fine. You have been eating this way for a long time and probably know a lot about it. However, while I definitely agree that ethical debates are out of place here, I don't think there is anything off-topic or offensive about responding to misinformation. For instance, I've read statements on CD that a purely vegetable diet is natural for our bodies and perfectly healthy. I speak up about B12 deficiency from time to time because B12 is found in meat and milk, not vegetables, and long-term B12 deficiency can cause brain damage. My grandmother has a rare, irreversible form of Parkinson's that likely stemmed from a lack of B12, so that is a tender subject for me. My sister has a confirmed B12 deficiency and must take daily supplements; without them, she loses brain function and has blackouts.

Nutrition and healthy food are important to me. I speak up now and then against processed foods, and I think I am far from militant about it. (Correct me if I am wrong.) I do worry about what's in that Boca burger or meatless soy crumbles or chick'n nuggets. It's junk food in my opinion, no better than living off fluorescent orange macaroni and cheese from a box or hot dogs. OK now and then if that's your thing, but not nearly as healthy or wholesome as real food you make yourself from simple ingredients. You seem to be saying that if a vegetarian said this--Boca burgers may not have meat in them, but they aren't particularly good for you--that would be OK, but an omnivore can take a hike. A message is good or true regardless of who the messenger is.

No Julia. I said, if you read my whole post, that I don't want to hear about the dangers of eating vegetarian food, including soy products, or a vegetarian diet, The thread is directed towards omnivores because that is the title and subject matter of the thread. I was adhering to that.
That's all. I have plenty of arguments with vegetarians, - on the board and off! There are different types of vegetarians - some purely from health, others such as myself, are mainly for ethical reasons. I see health as a secondary, but very real benefit.

No one can argue with me or with any sane individual, that ANIMALS SUFFER GREATLY IN THE MEAT INDUSTRY. Can YOU argue that? Most people do not want to see pictures of how calves slated for "veal" are kept,
the fact that most chickens who wind up on your table, were actually BOILED ALIVE, or the pregnant pigs actually can't turn around during gestation in their stalls. There is so much more and it is all horiffic and graphic and TRUE. It's not a debate. It's a FACT. I, and many others on this board can't live with these facts.

What can an omnivore teach me? That this is OK? Can they pull out the idiotic rantings of Descarte, to tell me that "animals feel no pain. They are machines."? If they do I have two words for then, but I can't say them on this forum so here goes Moderator cut: language !!!! Because that's what it would be,

No one can ague about my experience, and the experience of so many who were raised in prosperous post WWII suburbs, with parents who had the money to order steak and prime rib every time they went out to dinner, who kept freezers full of meat delivered by "the finest butcher" and ate meat every night of the week.
Most people I know have lost prematurely, at least one parent or one first degree relative to cancer. At LEAST ONE. And yet, if you go back just one generation before, to people who would have been born from 1900-1920, cancer deaths are rare.

My theory is thus. There were no Factory Farms, and there were no antibiotic - not for livestock or for humans. Animals were not fed hormones or kept in the conditions that they are now, where adrenaline would be released constantly. Most meat was from family run farms.
And the price made meat eating prohibitive even for solidly middle class families. Chicken was eaten more regularly, even by prosperous people.
My grandparents grew up in a borough of NYC which was then a suburb.
Even then withing NYCs bounderies, there were chicken farms where chicken ran what we would call "free range" today. The one you picked would be killed for you that day. They then either payed to have it prepared, or took it home to have the cook prepare it. My grandparents, as did many of the upper middle class, handed it over to the cook.

But being upper middle class or wealthy, did not shield any American from the Great Depression WWI or WWII. During all of these events, meat was scarce and rationed. Even if people did have the money to purchase it, meat was rationed, at least during WWII. There was only so much any American could get. Eggs and butter were also rationed.

In fact, I have a family recipe for "depression cake" - it works well as a vegan chocolate cake too. It has no eggs or butter.

FDR made a promise to America during the dark times of the Depression. It was that we would have "A Chicken in every pot" - not a steak on every grill. People never ate meat the way they do in the post war period through today. Not in this quantity, not treated in this manner or "medicated" the way it is.

After WWII it can be argued that America went on a meat eating frenzy.
And it continues today, offering meat on a daily basis to the poorest of Americans who can get it all Walmart. In my city, there is a cluster of fast food restaurants and fried chicken joints in the poorest section of the city.
That is a also where you will find the cities heaviest and sickest residents.

No one can argue with the story of Japan, a healthy and virtually cancer, obesity and heart disease free country until the introduction of the Western Diet. Now they are plagued with the same diseases that we are.

Frankly, I don't care what we were "intended to eat" and what sort of teeth I have. I have both. And common sense as well as compassion, lead me to eat a vegetarian diet. My very early hunter and gatherer ancestors most likely killed their pray with a rock and ate the flesh of their kill raw. Does that mean I should don a loin cloth and start tearing at a dead animal with my canine teeth?

No I will pass. There is no need for that, I have wholesome food in my kitchen and there is no longer any need for that. We have all evolved to a state where we can use our minds more than our molars, to think about the consequences of filling our stomachs at the expense of another creature.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 04-12-2012 at 08:15 PM.. Reason: Please use appropriate language
 
Old 04-12-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,388 posts, read 37,693,239 times
Reputation: 22529
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
Rainroosty, no one said you shouldn't post here as long as it keeps the "rules" of this forum (i.e. not discussing nonvegetarian recipes or giving veggies a hard time for their choices). Nor did anyone say that they were better/above anyone else. Where did you get that from? It's just a choice we have made because it's the right one for us.

But---your equating vegans/vegetarians posting in the general Food and Drink section to nonvegetarians posting in the veggie section isn't entirely valid. By default, veggie eating is part of general Food and Drink (for instance, when there is a thread discussing favorite teas or fruits or what people are eating that day). But nonvegetarian eating is NOT part of vegetarian eating......
jazzcat22, to answer the bolded part of your question, I refer you to Sheena12's post almost immediately following yours (and to posts by several other people on here who clearly do think that they are "better/above" anyone who doesn't share their dietary choices).
 
Old 04-12-2012, 12:50 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,115,713 times
Reputation: 18795
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty View Post
[color=Navy]To be courteous I will respond - what you say is not entirely true, because:

I have been reprimanded by moderators for posting in this forum....people were posting in a thread here about a woman's husband, who wanted to eat his meat and people here were posting about how to trick him into eating what he would think is meat...and not tell him....to lie to him.
So I merely posted that they should let him eat whatever he wants to eat.

I was reprimanded for that.
Ummmm, not really -- sent you a DM to discuss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty
There have been vegans/vegetarians posting in the Food and Drink forum trying to push their beliefs on us folks that eat other things....and, to be honest, I have seen our worthy moderator(s) remove their posts for doing so.

Anyway, people that are vegans/vegetarians DO think that they are "above" the rest of us - at least, most do - they think that we are somehow neanderthals, ignorant, cruel, stupid, blah, blah, blah.
I say that because I have had to deal with that. Call a spade a spade.
I have to say that seems more a matter of your perception, rather than reality. I say that as a vegetarian who certainly doesn't believe that I'm above ANYthing or anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty
People need to be kind and eliminate the differences between them. That is where I am coming from. You are welcome here and we are welcome there. All of us, equally.
And, as has been said repeatedly -- everyone is welcome to post here, as long as comments are on-topic and respectful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty
I will not post in here anymore.
Thank you for listening and replying!
~rainroosty~
Sorry, Julia......
If you choose not to post in this forum any longer, then that's your choice. Please don't blame it on anyone here.

PS: Julia isn't the mod of this forum. I am.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 12:56 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,115,713 times
Reputation: 18795
And one more thing:

There's a reason that I had to add a sticky at the top of the forum, reminding members of the rules of the road. It wasn't put there just for the heck of it .....
 
Old 04-12-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,199,574 times
Reputation: 42502
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
No Julia. I said, if you read my whole post, that I don't want to hear about the dangers of eating vegetarian food, including soy products, or a vegetarian diet, The thread is directed towards omnivores because that is the title and subject matter of the thread. I was adhering to that.
I did read your post. I don't attack people's choices, but I will post about nutrition when I feel it's appropriate. If the advice doesn't apply to you specifically, great! Ignore it. I don't target people or follow them around. I simply post when I want to participate in something that interests me.

As for the rest of your post, I already said that ethical debates do not belong here.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,199,574 times
Reputation: 42502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
PS: Julia isn't the mod of this forum. I am.
I can't check my star at the door! I am just a visitor here like everyone else.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,748 posts, read 3,322,944 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
jazzcat22, to answer the bolded part of your question, I refer you to Sheena12's post almost immediately following yours (and to posts by several other people on here who clearly do think that they are "better/above" anyone who doesn't share their dietary choices).
Sheena12 is brilliant, an excellent writer and she is telling the truth.

Are you saying that you think animals who are slated for death from the moment that they are born are treated well?

Is is a cows choice to be born as a food animal? Who said they are better than anyone else? Sheen12 admits that meat is an emotional issue for many people and she admits that she had troble breaking free of eating it.

I also think the raoseo is inhumane. Why would any civilized person get joy out of seeing a terrified calf being roped? I can't think of it.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 04-12-2012 at 08:12 PM.. Reason: Please discuss the topic, not each other.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,586 posts, read 23,122,267 times
Reputation: 48552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
Great question!

I think its trolling plain and simple. They've been here from the start of the sub-forum and will probably always wander in from time to time...but we should keep speaking our truth regardless!

THIS! ^ I think it's mostly trolling. If they want to post recipes or talk about meat eating, there is a subforum for that. It's not this one.
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