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Why not eat foods in their natural form, instead of after they've been through industrial equipment in a factory and processed to the point that they are no longer recognizable as what they actually are? Sure veggie hot dogs, corn dogs, chicken nuggets, etc. may have more protein than meat ones, but beans or tempeh or any number of whole foods do too.
Maybe it's a psychological or social thing. Some people need a 1 to 1 replacement for meat or cheese in order to be able to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet. Or, they need to have a hot dog at a BBQ because they're concerned about fitting in. I'm sure someone will say "or, maybe, they just like it". Okay, but there is no comparison in nutrition or flavor between processed food and whole food.
Years ago, when soy became all the rage, the producers jumped on that bandwagon in a hurry and people have been buying it right up ever since. Because, if a little soy is good, a lot must be better, right?
I don't care if other people love fake meat, but it's not wholesome compared to whole foods. It's odd how this forum is so biased towards all the processed stuff, but if you've been a vegetarian/vegan for 30+ years and have managed to always avoid processed food, you are considered a closed-minded purist or a snob or, somehow, less vegan than the folks who eat soy dogs.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-23-2012 at 07:44 PM..
Reason: Split off from unrelated thread
Not every vegetarian is that way because of health concerns, so to each his/her own .....
I really don't see that this forum slants strongly towards highly processed foods. Sure, most of us at least occasionally use them, but if you look through the recipe thread, I think you'll find very few -- if any -- include them. And most of the discussions don't focus on processed foods.
Of course, there may be some perceived defensiveness on the part of people who use them, because it's easy to feel attacked by members who feel compelled to point out how unhealthy they are, apparently in an effort to convince others that they know what's best for everyone. (Just to clarify -- I don't think YOU'RE guilty of that.)
I'm really not sure where the "snob" idea is coming from.
Not every vegetarian is that way because of health concerns, so to each his/her own .....
I really don't see that this forum slants strongly towards highly processed foods. Sure, most of us at least occasionally use them, but if you look through the recipe thread, I think you'll find very few -- if any -- include them. And most of the discussions don't focus on processed foods.
Of course, there may be some perceived defensiveness on the part of people who use them, because it's easy to feel attacked by members who feel compelled to point out how unhealthy they are, apparently in an effort to convince others that they know what's best for everyone. (Just to clarify -- I don't think YOU'RE guilty of that.)
I'm really not sure where the "snob" idea is coming from.
That's another thing I don't understand. Why do some here feel it's so important to make a distinction between the self-proclaimed ethical vegetarians and those they call health vegetarians. It's hard to argue against the fact that whole, organic foods are a more ethical choice (for people, animals and the environment) compared to processed and prepackaged foods. Yeah, I realize you can buy organic produce that is shipped from Asia and has a huge carbon footprint. It's easy to choose to buy something else. Plus, I stopped eating meat, fish, eggs, gelatin, rennet, etc. when I was 8 years old because we moved and I started spending a lot of time at the neighbor's farm and decided to never eat anything that an animal had to die to put on my plate. My parents helped me figure out what I could and wouldn't eat. We always ate whole, local whenever possible, organic foods that were prepared at home. I still do. Am I an ethical vegetarian or a health vegetarian? Does it matter?
The snob idea comes from some comments that I received for saying there are better choices than Tofurky or soy dogs. I think getting defensive because someone provides additional information that may not be popular or has an opinion of their own is pretty silly. But, it seems happen a lot here.
That's another thing I don't understand. Why do some here feel it's so important to make a distinction between the self-proclaimed ethical vegetarians and those they call health vegetarians.
Because we're all just human, and we've all got different opinions about what's important .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna
The snob idea comes from some comments that I received for saying there are better choices than Tofurky or soy dogs. I think getting defensive because someone provides additional information that may not be popular or has an opinion of their own is pretty silly. But, it seems happen a lot here.
Almost four years ago, when I first started modding this forum, I added two stickies to the forum, stressing the importance of being respectful, staying on topic and not criticizing the dietary choices of our members. It would be great if everyone would just follow those guidelines, ya know?
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-23-2012 at 10:42 PM..
I see nothing wrong with eating processed veggie food occasionally. While not as healthy as whole foods they are still much better than meat products.
It doesn't matter to me that they are shaped like burgers or hot dogs. I am not imagining that I am eating a burger or hot dog as I eat them. They could be made to resemble a deck of cards or hockey puck, anything that is a single serving size and fits between two pieces of whole grain bread.
They are convenient to take to work sometimes when I don't have leftovers to take. They are great to throw on a grill if I get together with friends for a cookout. At home I cook whole foods almost always but keep a variety of good veggie burgers and even corn dogs for an occasional quick meal or snack.
I am happy that grocery stores are stocking more brands and varieties of meatless products. At work our breakroom freezer is packed with veggie burgers of all kinds, even my coworkers who aren't vegetarian are eating them for healthy lunches.
I see nothing wrong with eating processed veggie food occasionally. While not as healthy as whole foods they are still much better than meat products.
It doesn't matter to me that they are shaped like burgers or hot dogs. I am not imagining that I am eating a burger or hot dog as I eat them. They could be made to resemble a deck of cards or hockey puck, anything that is a single serving size and fits between two pieces of whole grain bread.
They are convenient to take to work sometimes when I don't have leftovers to take. They are great to throw on a grill if I get together with friends for a cookout. At home I cook whole foods almost always but keep a variety of good veggie burgers and even corn dogs for an occasional quick meal or snack.
I am happy that grocery stores are stocking more brands and varieties of meatless products. At work our breakroom freezer is packed with veggie burgers of all kinds, even my coworkers who aren't vegetarian are eating them for healthy lunches.
I am happy too! Veru happy!
I eat a plant and grain based diet.
And really what is processed? What is whole? When we make a recipe we transform items from their original state and make them into something else. That's a process.
I often make hummus. I add lemon, tahini, garlic and other items and process it in my blender.
Natural or not? So if I purchase hummus at the supermarket is that processed? Or whole? I'd say processed but I don't think the purist whole foods crowd would have as much of an issue with it.
I think a lot of this is "form" over "content."
A recipe is processed! If some one else puts it together has some line been crossed?
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-25-2012 at 06:12 AM..
Reason: Deleted off-topic comments
There is an absolute distinction between ethical vegetarians and health vegetarians.
It is what philosophers would call an "essential" difference.
The problem is that many vegetarians/vegans are motivated by both factors, I don't know many that are solely focused on one issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
I don't agree. I eat a plant and grain based diet.
I don't understand this, are you saying that there are no junk foods that are plant and grain based? Potato chips, candy, etc can all be plant and grain based.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
And really what is processed? What is whole? When we make a recipe we transform items from their original state and make them into something else. That's a process.
A whole-food, as most understand it, is one that is either in its original state or one that has been minimally processed (chopped, grained or cooked). A dish that is a combination of whole-foods is still a whole-food.
So, under this definition, fresh hummus is a whole-food. On the other hand, most hummus purchased at the grocery store is a processed food due to the inclusion of preservatives, emulsifiers, etc whether from "natural" sources or not.
Also a "natural" product as far as food labeling is concerned is rather deceptive. For a product to be "natural" it just needs to be sourced from a whole food even though the extraction process my involve numerous industrial chemicals, procedures, etc.
Lastly, there are a number of possible carcinogens created by, or used in, food processing. Citing potential carcinogens in meat while ignoring those in processed foods doesn't make sense from a health perspective.
I don't care if other people love fake meat, but it's not wholesome compared to whole foods. It's odd how this forum is so biased towards all the processed stuff, but if you've been a vegetarian/vegan for 30+ years and have managed to always avoid processed food, you are considered a closed-minded purist or a snob or, somehow, less vegan than the folks who eat soy dogs.
I don't think this issue is unique to vegetarians or even food. Most people know that potato chips, etc aren't good for them and don't really want to hear people pointing it out to them and its easier to block the nay-sayers out by labeling them as "snobs", "ridged" or whatever else. Similarly, smokers don't like to hear about the health effects of smoking.
The problem is that many vegetarians/vegans are motivated by both factors, I don't know many that are solely focused on one issue.
I don't understand this, are you saying that there are no junk foods that are plant and grain based? Potato chips, candy, etc can all be plant and grain based.
A whole-food, as most understand it, is one that is either in its original state or one that has been minimally processed (chopped, grained or cooked). A dish that is a combination of whole-foods is still a whole-food.
So, under this definition, fresh hummus is a whole-food. On the other hand, most hummus purchased at the grocery store is a processed food due to the inclusion of preservatives, emulsifiers, etc whether from "natural" sources or not.
Also a "natural" product as far as food labeling is concerned is rather deceptive. For a product to be "natural" it just needs to be sourced from a whole food even though the extraction process my involve numerous industrial chemicals, procedures, etc.
Lastly, there are a number of possible carcinogens created by, or used in, food processing. Citing potential carcinogens in meat while ignoring those in processed foods doesn't make sense from a health perspective.
I personally disagree with your definition. And process is what I do when I cook a recipe.
I make awesome hummus. But so does Sabra.
Meat analogues are a healthy plant based food.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-25-2012 at 06:11 AM..
Reason: Deleted off-topic comments
I personally disagree with your definition. And process is what I do when I cook a recipe.
The definition I gave is the one being used by the advocates of wholefood plant-based diets and my point is that the definition is pretty clear cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
So when I combine ingredients at home there is something good and wholesome about it?
No and typically when people make food at home they aren't adding preservatives, emulsifiers, etc. The distinction I made in my post had nothing to do with whether the food is made at home or not, instead whether all the inputs were wholefoods or not.
Obviously processed foods differ in their wholefoods content. For example a store bought hummus is going to be mostly wholefoods. But the main ingredients to most veggie "meats" is some sort of textured protein product. There is nothing wholesome about textured protein isolates, they are created in a highly industrial process.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-25-2012 at 06:14 AM..
Reason: Edited out reference to deleted comment
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