A vegan and vegetarian subforum...Why do we need to defend ourselves? (soy, organic food)

[Green Irish Eyes]

Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli

Fair and wonderful? A matter of debate: I find that many veggie types are morally vain and think themselves above being challenged, even minimally.

LOL -- whatever ......

Unfortunately, you missed the OP's point. This is the Vegetarian/Vegan Food forum, not P&OC and not Religion & Spirituality. We don't want to debate our dietary choices here -- that's what those other forums (and Great Debates) are for.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon

LOL -- whatever ......

Unfortunately, you missed the OP's point. This is the Vegetarian/Vegan Food forum, not P&OC and not Religion & Spirituality. We don't want to debate our dietary choices here -- that's what those other forums (and Great Debates) are for.

Yes Dark of the Moon is correct. That was not the intention of my post.

I also specifically asked what veg*n's thought.

I was not calling for a debate about vegetarianism or veganism. I was asking WHY on a forum that is clearly labelled "Vegetarian/Vegan" we need to defend our choices.

I agree with our moderator that "Great Debates" is the proper venue for such debate.

[UnexpectedError]

This is an open forum and available for anyone to view and comment. I'm sure there are other sites online solely devoted to veggie/vegan or that are closed to outside comments. I'm afraid this is what you have to deal with.

[Cavaturaccioli]

Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon

LOL -- whatever ......

Unfortunately, you missed the OP's point. This is the Vegetarian/Vegan Food forum, not P&OC and not Religion & Spirituality. We don't want to debate our dietary choices here -- that's what those other forums (and Great Debates) are for.

It's a perfectly respectable choice, be it for dietary or ethical reasons, but when people in a forum designated to be other than political make politically relevant statements and then retreat from defending them by saying this isn't a forum for politics, that strikes me as...you fill in the word. I don't want to be offensive. "Ignoble" strikes me as much too harsh, but you get the idea. If the forum is indeed non-political then that has to be enforced on all sides if it is to be run fairly. JMHO. Peace.

[Green Irish Eyes]

Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli

It's a perfectly respectable choice, be it for dietary or ethical reasons, but when people in a forum designated to be other than political make politically relevant statements and then retreat from defending them by saying this isn't a forum for politics, that strikes me as...you fill in the word. I don't want to be offensive. "Ignoble" strikes me as much too harsh, but you get the idea. If the forum is indeed non-political then that has to be enforced on all sides if it is to be run fairly. JMHO. Peace.

If you believe posts here are too political, then you should use the Report button to bring them to my attention.

However, the bottom line is that what's "political" to one person isn't necessarily going to be "political" to another -- and some things being argued as "political" are simply off-topic. I'm as fair as I can be, but not everyone is going to agree with all of my decisions.

Such is life.

[Mikala43]

All the other forums have various debate about the subject matter - why should this one be any different?

[Green Irish Eyes]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

All the other forums have various debate about the subject matter - why should this one be any different?

Actually, that's not true. But if you want to debate, feel free to start a thread and do so.

[tdna]

Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon

Oh, please -- show me where anyone said that. See below for a few recent examples

Honestly, there's inflexibility on both sides of the "fake meat" issue, and apparently there's no desire to get along -- from either side. I've asked members to be supportive of each other and been told bluntly that it's not going to happen.

As for a "9th grade mean girls clique mentality," well, I hate to tell you but you're going to find that all over City-Data, and probably every other forum on the net. Same with "+1 for you!" type posts. This site is full of them. (And when I try to control it, I get accused of indiscriminantly locking threads and censoring free speech. So please tell me how you think I should handle it, OK? ) I'm not allowed to discuss moderation. And you can handle it how ever you see fit. It's your forum.

And, BTW, many of those "mean girls" you complain about aren't even veg*ns, so make sure you're pointing that finger of yours in more than one direction. I didn't single anyone out with that finger of mine.

Bottom line, if you stop posting in this forum, then that's a loss for people who could learn from you. And who knows -- you might even learn something yourself. What I've learned is that this forum is now only for people who feel they are more ethical than everyone else and they have no desire to hear from anyone, even a vegan, who does not fall right in line with their views. It used to be an open forum, with lots of different ideas and opinions. It's not anymore and I have nothing to contribute.

But that's your choice.

In response to the question, "Why the bias against fake meat?", a poster was simply explaining why some vegetarians and vegans prefer to eat whole foods rather than processed food and asked the OP why he would refer to the whole foods people as "rigid and inflexible":
"Because it's a vegetarian forum not a whole foods forum. There is a "green" forum too. Not all vegetarians care ."
So, vegetarians who eat a whole foods diet shouldn't post here because not all vegetarians care? News flash! Many do, but don't post because it's been made clear that those views are not welcome.

In response to me, when I (a vegan who does not eat fake meat) answered the question, "Why the bias against fake meat?":
"You made your opinion very clear and many people on this vegetarian/vegan forum don't need to hear it over and over. By repeating your opinion it is not going to change the way us vegetarian and vegans eat."
Apparently, my opinion as a vegan, even when specifically answering a question, is not welcome by "us vegetarians and vegans". I made one comment answering the OP's question and got that response. I'm assuming the "over and over" refers to the fact that I had the audacity to mention whole foods in other threads. Others, who commented several times but said how much they love fake meat, got kudos. So, it's okay to start multiple threads about the joys of fake meat (just count them!) and talk about how great it is in nearly every thread; but if you don't eat that way, keep your mouth shut because the real vegetarians and vegans don't want to hear your non-fake meat eating opinion.

In response to me when I posted in a thread about providing tips to help new vegetarians and vegans save money and stock a pantry for quick and easy meals:
"This really illustrates my point. I DON'T but things in bulk. Or grains or spices aor (sic) anything. You have illustrated my point. Not everyone wants to do this. Ever. It's fine that you do, but this is not the topic."
I save money by buying things in bulk and by making everything from scratch. But the person who posted the above reply hadn't heard of some of the food I listed and decided that what I eat is "unusual", so apparently that means my comment was not appreciated and off topic. Oh, and it illustrated a point, although I have no idea what that point was.

[Green Irish Eyes]

Originally Posted by tdna

So, it's okay to start multiple threads about the joys of fake meat (just count them!) and talk about how great it is in nearly every thread; but if you don't eat that way, keep your mouth shut because the real vegetarians and vegans don't want to hear your non-fake meat eating opinion.

Instead of posting your objections in a thread about "fake meat" (where they ARE off-topic), start your own thread(s) about whole foods. Problem solved.

[sheena12]

RE tdna. Most Veg*ns do not prefer whole food. Whole Food Eaters prefer Whole Food.

I know plenty of Whole Foodists who eat meat - as long as it's safe for them.

I and many other, have more in common with a conflicted omnivore who sincerely wants to stop hurting animals but does not know where to begin.