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Old 04-11-2013, 03:30 PM
 
1,076 posts, read 1,494,614 times
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I like vegans for the same reason I appreciated gay guys in my single days - they left more fresh meat for me.

 
Old 04-11-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Hollywood North
428 posts, read 1,047,403 times
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"Morally Superior" isn't a term I would use. I would go with something like ethically enlightened.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,202 posts, read 1,665,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
While I am completely unconcerned by the potential suffering of plant life, your first statement hit the nail on the head. Animals die so that crops can be harvested -- through the loss of habitat, or more gruesomely by being whisked up in the harvester and mangled. And this is no small number. In sheer numbers, probably more animals die to support crops than are purposely raised for slaughter. By weight, not so much.

But all those animals raised for slaughter have to eat grains/plants as well. I'm not sure how much more grain it would take to raise an animal for slaughter than the plant equivalent for human consumption, but it seems to me you have the lesser of two evils by just skipping raising grains for the animals and eating them too.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,513,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soanchorless View Post
... From certain Buddhist perspectives, where killing any sentient being is wrong, it is obviously morally superior. But if that's not your personal belief, then it shouldn't matter. Humans have evolved to be omnivores. That's just how it is ...
I once had the occasion to interview a Tibetan lama. I asked him, among many other things, if he thought it was wrong for people to eat meat. He answered, "Does a carrot not feel pain when you rip it from the ground?" He elaborated by saying that we should always have respect for anything we consume. In other words, don't be wasteful, don't be cruel ... even to carrots. If that requirement was met, he didn't have any other opinion on what anyone ate. "Every lifeform on the planet eats another lifeform."


Interestingly, he also said that Tibetan Buddhists don't encourage Americans to follow their ways. He said, "There's no reason for you to be what I am. You should just strive to be the best of the thing that you already are." I liked that.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: San Diego
993 posts, read 799,418 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
Your thoughts?
They are inferior.
Without humans cultivating animals for their own use, we would never have become the advanced creatures (however primitive we may act) we are today.

And the whole Vegan thing is idiotic. So dairy cows aren't supposed to produce milk? We're born and raised on a meat product, right? After all, breast milk is still milk! So if it's okay for a baby to consume milk, why is it wrong for an adult to do so?

I'm not a Ron Swanson type, but I simply can't get how vegans get that whole sense of moral superiority simply because they're violating their human nature. Without meat and other products from animals, we wouldn't exist today.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Middle America
36,519 posts, read 41,733,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julian17033 View Post
I love to wear my t-shirt that says "" My food had a momma. "" to our local farmer's market where one finds the vegan in all it's glory.
Our local farmer's market prominently features local meat locker-operating families who bring big refrigerator trucks of locally raised beef, lamb, pork, etc.! Def. not just the domain of the vegetarian-vegan only.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,238,474 times
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So are cows morally superior to dogs then?

While I do admire vegetarians/vegans who aren't too preachy about it, some of them do have a holier than thou attitudes that can be off-putting. I don't think it makes them morally superior per se, at least not within our moral framework, but I think deep down we would prefer it if we didn't have to kill, but that's just the way the world is.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 14,212,078 times
Reputation: 9011
Quote:
Originally Posted by soanchorless View Post
But all those animals raised for slaughter have to eat grains/plants as well. I'm not sure how much more grain it would take to raise an animal for slaughter than the plant equivalent for human consumption, but it seems to me you have the lesser of two evils by just skipping raising grains for the animals and eating them too.
Or you can look at it as "In for a penny, in for a pound."

If you go to Neil deGrasse Tyson's facebook page, you'll find a video of him and Anthony Bourdain sitting down and discussing vegetarianism. One of the many interesting things in that video is that they've figured out why third-world vegetarians are so much healthier than their first-world counterparts -- residual insect material in the diet. And insects are a good source of protein.

We cannot live without other creatures dying. There's no getting around that. The people who think that not eating animal protein somehow makes them morally superior are deluding themselves.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 09:47 AM
 
1,451 posts, read 1,576,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Raising crops requires wildlife habitat be destroyed, farmers will kill animals destroying their crops, etc. So a vegan diet still kills animals, it's just more indirect.
Yes! This point seems to be mostly missed when this topic is debated.
 
Old 04-12-2013, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Hollywood North
428 posts, read 1,047,403 times
Reputation: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
They are inferior.
Without humans cultivating animals for their own use, we would never have become the advanced creatures (however primitive we may act) we are today.

And the whole Vegan thing is idiotic. So dairy cows aren't supposed to produce milk? We're born and raised on a meat product, right? After all, breast milk is still milk! So if it's okay for a baby to consume milk, why is it wrong for an adult to do so?

I'm not a Ron Swanson type, but I simply can't get how vegans get that whole sense of moral superiority simply because they're violating their human nature. Without meat and other products from animals, we wouldn't exist today.
Living by principles of non violence is "idiotic"? Interesting. I personally think it's idiotic to think we need to consume the breast milk of another species to survive. I also think it's idiotic to refer to breast milk as a "meat product". If adults want to continue drinking breast milk past the age of weaning they should get it from their own species, from someone who willingly provides.it.
Vegans aren't violating their human nature at all. We know about the horrid treatment of farm animals raised for meat/dairy and we choose not to participate in such a violent inhumane system. We don't see animals as economic units and think animals should be left alone. I don't think it's ethical to consume animal products when there is no need to do so.
Also, to those appealing to what cavemen did in order to survive isn't convincing. Primitive people did a lot of things many people today would consider repugnant. I see no reason to make an exception with non human animals.
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