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Ditto. I never understood why someone would think cheese, sausage, and bacon is healthier than oats and quinoa. I personally think these low/no carb Atkins type diets are just an excuse to eat all the meat and dairy you want and think you're being "healthy."
There has been some research indicating that humans don't get as much absorption of calcium from dairy as once thought. Possibly because we didn't evolve to digest and absorb nutrients from another species milk.
Great points! I once dated a guy who ate literally a one pound package of bacon for dinner every day and 2 Whopper patties with cheese for lunch, scrambled eggs with cheese for breakfast. No bread, grains, fruits or veggies whatsoever.
He loved meat and hated fruit and veggies, disliked any healthy foods at all so Adkins diet was just an excuse for his poor eating habits.
I lean toward the research that shows low carbohydrate diets like Atkin's are considerably better for your cholesterol and glucose than those full of processed carbohydrates. Most people would think eating tons of cheese, eggs, bacon, etc would drive your cholesterol up quite a bit but there is a lot of research that shows the opposite.
What research exactly? I've yet to see any research that shows eating "tons" of foods high in saturated fat is good for your cholesterol levels. As for as refined carbohydrates, they don't raise your cholesterol but can result in a bad LDL/HDL ratio by lowering your HDL while not similarly lowering your LDL. So its true that replacing saturated fat in your diet with refined carbohydrates may not provide much of a benefit, but who is recommending that? Nobody that I'm aware, instead they recommend replacing saturated fats with whole grains, legumes, fruits, nuts, seeds, etc.
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Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere
There has been some research indicating that humans don't get as much absorption of calcium from dairy as once thought. Possibly because we didn't evolve to digest and absorb nutrients from another species milk.
There has? The absorption rate from dairy is pretty good, not as good as some dark leafy greens (e.g., kale), but good.
The long-term issues with Atkins diet are heart and kidney problems. In the short term healthy adults seem to show no health problems but Atkins and other high protein, low carb diets are not something you want to stay on too long. They are definitely a diet rather than a change of lifestyle.
Interestingly, people who have been on Atkins for years often develop osteoporosis despite a high intake of dairy products.
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Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere
Ditto. I never understood why someone would think cheese, sausage, and bacon is healthier than oats and quinoa. I personally think these low/no carb Atkins type diets are just an excuse to eat all the meat and dairy you want and think you're being "healthy."
I'm sorry but you do not know my husband, ThinkingElsewhere. His reason for remaining low carb has nothing to do with eating all of the meat and dairy he wants to eat. As I stated earlier, he wanted to become a vegetarian and after doing it for about a year, he gave it up after gaining weight and seeing his cholesterol rise. I have seen my husband struggle with his weight for years and this poor guy does everything right---he has incredible self-control, he works out at the gym multiple times per a week and walks regularly. Diabetes runs rampant in his family and he does everything he can to avoid it. He has no thyroid problems and does what he should, yet I see him stand on the scale, disappointed that he is unable to shed a pound. The guy is medically "morbidly obese" (doesn't look it, IMO) and has always eaten less than me. It does not help that he is naturally a "big guy" and by that I mean he is very broad.
My husband has a medical check-up every year and I am always examining his labs, because this is the field I am in so I watch his numbers like a hawk. Yes, there are risks, but for him the benefits currently outweigh the risks and it is his decision to continue living this way. Please do not insult his intelligence---he would much rather eat "healthy" stuff but at the end of the day, when there is only one thing that keeps weight off and that's what you want to do, then you'll do it.
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Originally Posted by missik999
Great points! I once dated a guy who ate literally a one pound package of bacon for dinner every day and 2 Whopper patties with cheese for lunch, scrambled eggs with cheese for breakfast. No bread, grains, fruits or veggies whatsoever.
He loved meat and hated fruit and veggies, disliked any healthy foods at all so Adkins diet was just an excuse for his poor eating habits.
Again, no one knows my husband quite like I do. He likes everything. Trust me---he would love to eat real bread, pasta, rice, fruits and vegetables. (He does eat vegetables that are lower in carbs.) When he does this, and yes even when measuring out servings, he gains weight. I've watched it happen before my eyes. He does not want to be fat and he is still fat no matter what he does---it is very upsetting to watch.
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Originally Posted by user_id
What research exactly? I've yet to see any research that shows eating "tons" of foods high in saturated fat is good for your cholesterol levels. As for as refined carbohydrates, they don't raise your cholesterol but can result in a bad LDL/HDL ratio by lowering your HDL while not similarly lowering your LDL. So its true that replacing saturated fat in your diet with refined carbohydrates may not provide much of a benefit, but who is recommending that? Nobody that I'm aware, instead they recommend replacing saturated fats with whole grains, legumes, fruits, nuts, seeds, etc.
You know as well as I that research is constantly changing and that what one study says, another study will refute a few months later. Researching the impact of salt on the body is practically the epitome of this and more recently, the research on how "bad" eggs are for you has become how "good" eggs are for you.
I'll be honest in saying that I cannot recall the specific article I read, as it was quite some time ago, but there is research that demonstrates the positive impacts low carbohydrate diets have on diabetic patients by lowering their glucose, as well as decreasing triglyceride levels and increasing HDL in various types of patients (as per multiple studies published in JAMA.)
I am not saying what applies to him applies to everybody or even the general population. I am stating that I have seen his labs when he was low carb, vegetarian and low carb again, and I can see the difference in his cholesterol, as well as his weight. Aside from his diet, nothing else changed during this time period.
You know as well as I that research is constantly changing and that what one study says, another study will refute a few months later. Researching the impact of salt on the body is practically the epitome of this and more recently, the research on how "bad" eggs are for you has become how "good" eggs are for you.
Yep, science changes, but just because some studies seem to conflict doesn't mean there isn't a strong consensus in the scientific community. Also, a factor in the case of nutrition is that often the food industry funds studies and they aren't always done with a "pure heart", they are done to get their products in the news in a positive light and the studies are engineered to do that.
Eggs, due to their high saturated fat and cholesterol content, are still an issue. Eggs have a decent amount of nutrients, but not more than a number of vegetables which don't come with all the saturated fat and cholesterol.
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Originally Posted by city living
I'll be honest in saying that I cannot recall the specific article I read, as it was quite some time ago, but there is research that demonstrates the positive impacts low carbohydrate diets have on diabetic patients by lowering their glucose, as well as decreasing triglyceride levels and increasing HDL in various types of patients
You went from there being "a lot o research" to not being able to recall a single article.... The American Heart Association and similar organizations all recommend limiting saturated fat due to its link to heart disease.
As for low carbohydrate diets, a low carbohydrate diet doesn't need to be rich in saturated fat...it doesn't even have to include meat. Low carbohydrate diets are used, by some, to help manage the symptoms of type 2 diabetes but these diets do little to resolve the underlying condition (insulin resistance). Its a bit like avoiding a car accident by not driving. Ironically, your fat intake (not carbohydrate intake) plays a big role in the development of insulin resistance so while low carbohydrate diets may help people manage their symptoms they may make the underlying problem worse...
As for vegetarian diets, "vegetarian" isn't a particular diet...it just means you don't eat meat. Since there are numerous unhealthy vegetarian foods, one shouldn't expect to get healthy by merely avoiding meat. With that said, vegetarians and vegans are likely to find it easier to follow a heart healthy diet because they've already removed some of the worse offenders. If someone feels poorly and gains weight on a vegetarian diet, the most likely reason for that is that the diet was poor and not well balanced.
We are all different. What is good for some of us may be bad for others. And then some people are outliers (unusual cases). I am always suspicious of broad, dogmatic statements. However, over the years of continually accumulating scientific research, there is a broad consensus that consumption of refined carbohydrates as well as saturated fats should be minimized, and that consumption of vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, and whole grains should be encouraged.
Management of blood sugar levels by diabetics has been mentioned in this thread. That is certainly a dietary issue, but is also an exercise issue. Lipid panel results (cholesterol, triclycerides, LDL/HDL ratio) are perhaps as much affected by exercise as by diet. Therefore people who are looking at diet alone to manage any of these issues are leaving an extremely important tool (exercise) out of their toolbox.
Even here (exercise versus diet), individual differences should be expected. Some people may experience that diet is the more powerful factor, while for others it may be exercise. Broad dogmatic statements should arouse suspicions.
I'm sorry but you do not know my husband, ThinkingElsewhere. His reason for remaining low carb has nothing to do with eating all of the meat and dairy he wants to eat. As I stated earlier, he wanted to become a vegetarian and after doing it for about a year, he gave it up after gaining weight and seeing his cholesterol rise. I have seen my husband struggle with his weight for years and this poor guy does everything right---he has incredible self-control, he works out at the gym multiple times per a week and walks regularly. Diabetes runs rampant in his family and he does everything he can to avoid it. He has no thyroid problems and does what he should, yet I see him stand on the scale, disappointed that he is unable to shed a pound. The guy is medically "morbidly obese" (doesn't look it, IMO) and has always eaten less than me. It does not help that he is naturally a "big guy" and by that I mean he is very broad.
My husband has a medical check-up every year and I am always examining his labs, because this is the field I am in so I watch his numbers like a hawk. Yes, there are risks, but for him the benefits currently outweigh the risks and it is his decision to continue living this way. Please do not insult his intelligence---he would much rather eat "healthy" stuff but at the end of the day, when there is only one thing that keeps weight off and that's what you want to do, then you'll do it.
cityliving,
I was not targeting or insulting your husband and I apologize if I came across that way. I was only making a general comment from my personal experience with other people. But you are correct, a particular eating habit can benefit one person, but not be so beneficial to another. Your husband should never feel bad that vegetarianism didn't work out for him. I've stated this in other threads, the true purpose of vegetarianism/veganism is to abstain from animal products due to the ethical issues of factory farming, not to be healthier. Although there are some doctors and diets suggesting that veganism can help those with cardiovascular disease (Esseltyn comes to mind).
The truth is nutrition is a young science, there is so much we are still unsure of. Too many studies contradicting one another which confuses the public. Too many biases. Too many scientists/doctors try to act like engineers when it comes to nutrition, thinking one particular diet is the fix for for obesity and the health issues that come with it. It's not that simple, the human body is complex, and genetics can play a huge role. You are right, some people are naturally bigger and will have a slower metabolism than another person.
I do agree with userid in that you have to be careful where you get your source of information, it is true that many "anti-carb" studies are funded by the dairy and meat industry.
Of course you should never take advice from a stranger online, but I am only giving my two cents. Since this paleo diet seems to be working for your husband, then I agree you should stick with it. But I would replace bacon and other processed meats with more wholesome meats like fresh turkey, chicken, and fish in moderation. I would also stick to healtier dairy products like Swiss cheese and plain yogurt. My background is in environmental medicine with a focus in nutrition and food safety, so I am very concerned about the chemical additives found in highly processed foods. Bacon, cold cuts, smoked salmon are cured with chemicals (don't mean to scare, but some of them are known carcinogens), and therefore should not be eaten everyday IMO.
I wish the best of luck to your husband and hope is new eating habits work.
From what I understand the losing weight usually only happens when you go full vegan. If you are still eating animal products (for some people) - even if they aren't eating meat, they may still gain weight with the carbs. I'm not sure what kind of carbs these people are eating, but if they are not complex carbs than that can be an issue too. But like someone said - everyone's body is different, and some people gain from carbs more on a vegetarian diet than others. If they go full vegan and do not eat processed, refined carbs/foods and limit/cut out oils, I don't have any doubt that almost everyone will lose weight.
We are all different. What is good for some of us may be bad for others.
Obviously people do, on some levels, differ genetically but we are also a single species so there are far more similarities than differences. I find this sort of sentiment is largely a cop-out though, especially in relation to vegetarian diets. People will often claim that a "vegetarian diet" didn't work for them, yet there is no known reason why that would be the case. With one exception (vitamin b12), there is no known nutrient that is found in meat that can't be derived from plants or synthesized by the body. But b12 supplementation is recommend for anybody older than 50 as we start to lose the ability to properly digest it when its bound to animal protein. It, like vitamin D, is one of the vitamins that is problematic due to our modern living environment (b12 is found in natural water sources, soil...which we don't consume anymore and of course D from being in the sun).
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Originally Posted by Escort Rider
That is certainly a dietary issue, but is also an exercise issue. Lipid panel results (cholesterol, triclycerides, LDL/HDL ratio) are perhaps as much affected by exercise as by diet.
Exercise isn't that effective at lowering your total cholesterol, but it does help by lowering your LDL while increasing your HDL. So it is a "tool", as you say. But diet can dramatically lower your total cholesterol and improve your LDL/HDL ratio. But most people aren't willing to take these dietary steps, so for the majority the limited dietary changes they are willing to make may be similar to the changes seen in diet. So your claim may be true in practice for the majority, but not true in theory.
For the vast majority, when you put them on a low fat vegan style diet their cholesterol drops dramatically (usually < 150 total cholesterol). This can be seen in the clinical trials by Dean Ornish and Esselsytn and they were dealing with people with developed heart disease (e.g., a group that is likely to be predisposed to high cholesterol). Similarly, when you look at populations that consume a near vegan low fat diet (e.g., some Asian populations) their cholesterol levels are in the < 150 range as well. So the combination of clinical studies and epidemiological studies paints a pretty convincing picture, namely, that cholesterol levels are largely a matter of diet and a diet that is rich in whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits with minimal animal products (and as such, naturally low in fat) is very effective and lowering your cholesterol levels and more importantly, reducing your risk for cardiovascular disease.
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