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Old 06-24-2013, 07:09 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,639,949 times
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Wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Seems pretty extreme.


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Last edited by Marka; 02-15-2016 at 01:58 AM..
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 36,267,766 times
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I'm not sure why it's anyone's business who is, and isn't, a vegan. I mean - Catholics don't publish a website of ex-Catholics. Meat-eaters don't publish a website of ex-meat-eaters. People who went to Berkeley don't publish a list of students who transfered to other schools.

It seems pretty extreme to me, that such a list would even exist, let alone that anyone would actually care about its contents. I didn't click on it, because I don't care who used to reject meat, but now eats it. I'm guessing most meat-eaters aren't going to care who has just recently joined them. I'm sure none of us are going to proclaim a day for rejoicing as we receive another of our brethren, and raise a chicken leg in our newest member's honor or anything like that.

If it's more of a religious thing, I'd think the same. Jews don't publish a list of ex-Jews, though I'm sure somewhere, there's a list of converts, which would indicate that those converts used to be "something else" and are now "ex-something else." But I don't think anyone from that "somewhere else" is going to care all that much. Except maybe the Church of Scientology, or any other cult.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,542,360 times
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The whole idea is repulsive, and an example of how to turn people off to the vegan message.

First and foremost, one's privacy AND one's freedom to choose is compromised by this kind of mindless peer pressure. Nobody needs to justify themselves in this arena, especially not to the perhaps 8/10 of 1% of the public which is vegan.

Second, this kind of thing overlooks the very inconvenient truth that due to body type and other physical considerations, perhaps a third of the people attempting a vegan diet wind up abandoning it for health reasons. Not everyone CAN be a vegan.

If you have a fervent believe that something is good, and you want others to join you in that belief, stick to attracting people with what you see is positive about your viewpoint, rather than trying to shame them if they don't agree.

Last edited by OpenD; 06-24-2013 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,538 posts, read 10,850,513 times
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It's always good to expose phonies and hypocrites.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,412,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Second, this kind of thing overlooks the very inconvenient truth that due to body type and other physical considerations, perhaps a third of the people attempting a vegan diet wind up abandoning it for health reasons. Not everyone CAN be a vegan.
Outside of some rare genetic disorders, there is no reason to believe this. The real truth, and its pretty convenient, is that people abandon vegan diets because social pressure and health issues that result in a poorly planned vegan diet. Most people that "go vegan" don't have a good grasp on the nutritional issues and the vegan movement has done a very poor job at educating people, instead they focus on horrifying people into a vegan lifestyle.

As for the ex-vegan thing, it gets tiresome because many ex-vegans make ridiculous claims. The other reason vegans make a big deal out of it is that these are people that know the details of what happens in meat production...and yet they go back to supporting it. As such ex-vegans are viewed differently than someone that eats meats but is ignorant of what happens in meat production.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,542,360 times
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Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Outside of some rare genetic disorders, there is no reason to believe this.
There absolutely is. Anyone can Google "vegan failure to thrive" or "vegan disease" and find thousands of articles and studies and personal accounts about health issues people have had with even well-planned vegan diets and expert advice. Some people's bodies simply don't work well on strict vegan diets.

Quote:
The real truth, and its pretty convenient, is that people abandon vegan diets because social pressure and health issues that result in a poorly planned vegan diet.
I think the real-life case of Mahatma Gandhi is instructive. He was a lifelong champion for vegetarianism, which until the founding of the Vegan Society in 1944, was understood to include dairy products and honey, and for some, eggs. As a matter of fact, early references to the Vegan ideal referred to it as "non-dairy vegetarianism." Even the Jains, upon whose moral and religious principle of Ahimsa the Vegan Society was based, mostly follow a lacto-vegetarian diet. Gandhi himself tried to follow a vegan diet a number of times, but he always went back to consuming dairy after he developed health issues.

All I'm saying is that if a vegan diet works for someone, I totally support it. But if it doesn't.... and for many it doesn't... then I totally support them finding a diet which does work. Someone else's idea about what they think should work for you is their business. What actually works for you is your business. Do what works for you.

Seriously, it's that simple.

Quote:
As for the ex-vegan thing, it gets tiresome because many ex-vegans make ridiculous claims. The other reason vegans make a big deal out of it is that these are people that know the details of what happens in meat production...and yet they go back to supporting it. As such ex-vegans are viewed differently than someone that eats meats but is ignorant of what happens in meat production.
At a first cursory glance I thought the website named by the OP was going to tell me things like what a skank Ginnifer Flowers is because she was a vegan for a while but then she quit... and then she went and told everyone about it on national TV! I mean, celebrities are fair game for public criticism, right? But when I went back and started poking around the site, I was positively horrified. It's far worse than I imagined. It's an anonymous blacklist of ordinary people, and that's totally and completely unAmerican. There's no accountability whatsoever, just anonymous smears by who-knows- who they are, posting for who-knows-what reason they have. People could lose their livelihood because of this, or worse, even if the posted claims were not true. And that is indefensible.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:32 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,909 posts, read 8,622,386 times
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Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
I'm not sure why it's anyone's business who is, and isn't, a vegan. I mean - Catholics don't publish a website of ex-Catholics.
Perfect analogy.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,538 posts, read 10,850,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
There absolutely is. Anyone can Google "vegan failure to thrive" or "vegan disease" and find thousands of articles and studies and personal accounts about health issues people have had with even well-planned vegan diets and expert advice. Some people's bodies simply don't work well on strict vegan diets.



I think the real-life case of Mahatma Gandhi is instructive. He was a lifelong champion for vegetarianism, which until the founding of the Vegan Society in 1944, was understood to include dairy products and honey, and for some, eggs. As a matter of fact, early references to the Vegan ideal referred to it as "non-dairy vegetarianism." Even the Jains, upon whose moral and religious principle of Ahimsa the Vegan Society was based, mostly follow a lacto-vegetarian diet. Gandhi himself tried to follow a vegan diet a number of times, but he always went back to consuming dairy after he developed health issues.

All I'm saying is that if a vegan diet works for someone, I totally support it. But if it doesn't.... and for many it doesn't... then I totally support them finding a diet which does work. Someone else's idea about what they think should work for you is their business. What actually works for you is your business. Do what works for you.

Seriously, it's that simple.



At a first cursory glance I thought the website named by the OP was going to tell me things like what a skank Ginnifer Flowers is because she was a vegan for a while but then she quit... and then she went and told everyone about it on national TV! I mean, celebrities are fair game for public criticism, right? But when I went back and started poking around the site, I was positively horrified. It's far worse than I imagined. It's an anonymous blacklist of ordinary people, and that's totally and completely unAmerican. There's no accountability whatsoever, just anonymous smears by who-knows- who they are, posting for who-knows-what reason they have. People could lose their livelihood because of this, or worse, even if the posted claims were not true. And that is indefensible.

This post is utterly disingenuous. Find some actual peer-reviewed medical literature that connects a vegan diet with any medical problems. Sure, it might be wise to take Vitamin B-12 synthesized from male urine which is how it's obtained but that's about it.

I admit that I'm not vegan but I have the highest admiration for those who are. Stop trying to make virtues out of failings.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:41 AM
 
12,544 posts, read 12,466,546 times
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Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Seems pretty extreme.
This is about as tasteful as those anti-choice sites that publish the names and addresses of physicians who provide contraception and abortion services, with an eye toward bringing said physicians into the line of fire both figuratively and literally.

However, I do have to draw a line somewhere. I mentioned in another thread that I find it irksome that Ellen Degeneres presents herself as a big animal rights advocate, yet makes a mint being a spokesmodel for Cover Girl, which tests on animals. When someone profits off of his or her own hypocrisy, that takes it too far.

Last edited by Marka; 02-15-2016 at 01:58 AM..
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:38 PM
 
2,727 posts, read 708,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
This is about as tasteful as those anti-choice sites that publish the names and addresses of physicians who provide contraception and abortion services, with an eye toward bringing said physicians into the line of fire both figuratively and literally.

However, I do have to draw a line somewhere. I mentioned in another thread that I find it irksome that Ellen Degeneres presents herself as a big animal rights advocate, yet makes a mint being a spokesmodel for Cover Girl, which tests on animals. When someone profits off of his or her own hypocrisy, that takes it too far.
Yup, as usual, I am cursed/blessed to see both sides. Celebrities are fair game----this information is already out there. Like with Ellen---while she claims to be a vegan, she also has openly stated enjoying her neighbor's fresh eggs! (I thought she was bright enough to understand the concept of what a vegan is.) People posting stuff about people not in the public eye is a little scary to me---but this is the Internet...where students can post anonymous negative things about instructors and anyone can post whatever they want on Facebook. It's probably not even libel/slander per se, especially if it's true.

I have no desire to "out" former vegans/vegetarians who I know in real life. (But then, aside from forums like this, I don't see the value of posting stuff a la Facebook.) I do think their reasons for returning to meat eating are stupid and morally bankrupt and not scientifically valid. For example, a former friend who actually is a physician assistant said he stopped being a vegetarian because a doctor told him that he could become diabetic by being a vegetarian and getting too many carbs (like that the pancreas can only make so much insulin a lifetime)---which is so contrary to diabetes being lessened/reversed by a veggie diet.
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