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Old 08-20-2013, 07:32 AM
 
639 posts, read 1,119,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
I'm not sure how you came to so thoroughly misunderstand basic scientific principles such as these, but you have. Here's a more authentic explanation... "Physical changes are changes affecting the form of a chemical substance, but do not change the chemical composition of that substance."

Physical change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And chemical changes... "occur when a substance combines with another to form a new substance, called synthesis or, alternatively, decomposes into two or more different substances."

Chemical change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



No, because although its form has been irreversibly changed, a chemical assay of the juice and pulp will show that it is still made up of the same compounds. It's like breaking a glass. You can't put the physical form of the glass back together, but the chemical composition is completely unchanged.



Sorry, but claiming you know better than a primary scientific textbook severely undercuts the credibility of anything else you might have to say.



Not at all. It's still all the same compounds, unchanged, just in a different physical form.



Yes, I've juiced wheatgrass for years. It's the original green juice, and I think still the best.

The taste is challenging, but people drink it for its health-giving properties, not its taste.

Wheatgrass, Juicing, Wheatgrass side effects, Wheatgrass Juice, Benefits of Wheatgrass, Wheatgrass Kits, How to grow wheatgrass at home, Growing wheatgrass indoors, Wheat grass Juicer, organic wheatgrass seed, Grow your own Wheatgrass
In juicing you remove much of the skin and pulp which greatly reduces, if not eliminates, the fiber. Remaining compounds may not be unchanged, but compounds are removed. Not the the same exact substance there as the actual fruit. I'll digress the topic, but in juicing you're actually removing compounds unlike breaking glass or chopping fruit.

Regardless, blending is not the same thing as juicing. As you posted before, perhaps *some* of the cellulose walls are broken in the stronger blenders which may affect digestion. Saying that blending fruits greatly reduces the fiber because all or most its cellulose walls are broken is not accurate (between lack of studies and what you posted). Sure when you add refined sugars, flavored yogurt, maybe lots of juice to a smoothie it becomes unhealthy, but not necessarily when you're using whole fruits and veggies. Either way, when you're diabetic you have to regulate the amount of fruit you eat whether it's a blended fruit or whole fruit.

As for wheatgrass, I never knew that what the original recipe. Maybe some stevia might make it more tolerable.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,788 posts, read 74,825,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Physical change = a change in appearance
Chemical change = produces something new
That's not quite correct, as OpenD has indicated.

A cooked egg -- now, that's a chemical change because the protein in the egg has been denatured by heat. Denaturization changes the cell structure of protein, which indeed is a chemical change. Cleaning with baking soda and vinegar is a chemical change; when mixed, the sodium bicarbonate and acetic acid produce carbon dioxide, sodium acetate, and water, which did not exist before the two substances were combined. The molecules get all rearranged.

My 11th-grade biochemistry teacher would be proud.

When you juice an apple, no cellular structures have been altered. All you've done is remove the skin and the pulp. There is no change in molecular structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Green smoothies are more dangerous that what junk foods? Oreos, Fritos, Frappuccinos, ice cream, cheese bagels, muffins, candy bars, red velvet cake? At least green smoothies have nutritional value.
Absolutely, and like the aforementioned yogurt (which also is a better nutritional value than candy or cake, even if it's laden with sugar), it all depends on what you put into it. The green smoothies I make have kale and/or spinach, one to one and a half servings of fruit (usually berries, and either apple, banana or pineapple, depending on what's handy), and carrots or whatever other vegetable is needing to be eaten before it spoils.

Kind of like a breakfast stew.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Saying that blending fruits greatly reduces the fiber because all or most its cellulose walls are broken is not accurate (between lack of studies and what you posted). Sure when you add refined sugars, flavored yogurt, maybe lots of juice to a smoothie it becomes unhealthy, but not necessarily when you're using whole fruits and veggies.
To say it again, nobody here has claimed that blending "greatly reduces the fiber".

Juicing and blending aren't significantly different, juicers just finely chop the plant (i.e., blend) and then filter out the fiber..usually using some sort of spinning device. But this is only possible because the juices and the fibers have been separate by the blending process. So, as I said before, blending destroys the structure of fruits and turns it into fruit juice + fiber. So when you use whole fruit in a blender, you're creating fruit juice. Fruit juice may have some nutrients, but metabolically it behaves a lot like refined sugar.

The whole fruit would be better if you ate it whole, but once blended its not, metabolically/digestion wise, much different' than if you used fruit juice or refined sugar.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:05 AM
 
639 posts, read 1,119,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
That's not quite correct, as OpenD has indicated.

A cooked egg -- now, that's a chemical change because the protein in the egg has been denatured by heat. Denaturization changes the cell structure of protein, which indeed is a chemical change. Cleaning with baking soda and vinegar is a chemical change; when mixed, the sodium bicarbonate and acetic acid produce carbon dioxide, sodium acetate, and water, which did not exist before the two substances were combined. The molecules get all rearranged.

My 11th-grade biochemistry teacher would be proud.

When you juice an apple, no cellular structures have been altered. All you've done is remove the skin and the pulp. There is no change in molecular structure.
Fair enough, I digress. What I was trying to point more so is that juicing is not the same type of process as blending. As I said, in juicing you remove or greatly reduce the fiber as opposed to blending where it's more just chopping and mixing, like you stated basically doing the same job your teeth do. I guess some people think that blending denatures the fiber and affects digestion, etc. but there are no credible studies on that. If anything, it's shown that it breaks very few or none the fiber cellulose walls (in reference to what OpenD posted).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Absolutely, and like the aforementioned yogurt (which also is a better nutritional value than candy or cake, even if it's laden with sugar), it all depends on what you put into it. The green smoothies I make have kale and/or spinach, one to one and a half servings of fruit (usually berries, and either apple, banana or pineapple, depending on what's handy), and carrots or whatever other vegetable is needing to be eaten before it spoils.

Kind of like a breakfast stew.
That smoothie sounds tasty. I agree, flavored yogurt and 100% juice is still better for you than cake and soda. Seems like you, I look at nutrition as not as black and white. But that's another thread topic hehe.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:21 AM
 
639 posts, read 1,119,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
To say it again, nobody here has claimed that blending "greatly reduces the fiber".

Juicing and blending aren't significantly different, juicers just finely chop the plant (i.e., blend) and then filter out the fiber..usually using some sort of spinning device. But this is only possible because the juices and the fibers have been separate by the blending process. So, as I said before, blending destroys the structure of fruits and turns it into fruit juice + fiber. So when you use whole fruit in a blender, you're creating fruit juice. Fruit juice may have some nutrients, but metabolically it behaves a lot like refined sugar.

The whole fruit would be better if you ate it whole, but once blended its not, metabolically/digestion wise, much different' than if you used fruit juice or refined sugar.
Reducing fiber, denaturing fiber, affecting digestion, etc. Whatever we're calling it.

No. Juice is usually made by squeezing the liquid extract from fruits, much of the skin and sometimes pulp can be removed.
Juice - Wikipedia

Have you ever even put fruit or veggies in a blender? I can tell you that blended strawberries look nothing like strawberry juice.

Either way, there is no credible studies suggesting that blending breaks all the fiber cellulose walls. In reference to what OpenD posted, it may break a few cellulose fiber walls, but that's more so if you blend it for too long. Probably not enough to cause blood sugar spikes.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: says MA on my license but can be found wandering the beaches of RI
1,432 posts, read 1,815,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
In juicing you remove much of the skin and pulp which greatly reduces, if not eliminates, the fiber. Remaining compounds may not be unchanged, but compounds are removed. Not the the same exact substance there as the actual fruit. I'll digress the topic, but in juicing you're actually removing compounds unlike breaking glass or chopping fruit.

Regardless, blending is not the same thing as juicing. As you posted before, perhaps *some* of the cellulose walls are broken in the stronger blenders which may affect digestion. Saying that blending fruits greatly reduces the fiber because all or most its cellulose walls are broken is not accurate (between lack of studies and what you posted). Sure when you add refined sugars, flavored yogurt, maybe lots of juice to a smoothie it becomes unhealthy, but not necessarily when you're using whole fruits and veggies. Either way, when you're diabetic you have to regulate the amount of fruit you eat whether it's a blended fruit or whole fruit.

As for wheatgrass, I never knew that what the original recipe. Maybe some stevia might make it more tolerable.
I have read that if you juice, you need to drink the beverage almost immediately or the nutrients will be lost. But if you blend, you can store up to a day I believe (sealed and refrigerated of course) so I agree that there is a different between juicing and blending.

I've mixed plenty of different greens in my blend mixes but wheatgrass makes my drinks too chewy. When mixing fruits and veggies, I typically add a half pack of stevia - it makes a HUGE difference.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Reducing fiber, denaturing fiber, affecting digestion, etc. Whatever we're calling it.
Umm....the details matter and fiber isn't, in principle, denatured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
No. Juice is usually made by squeezing the liquid extract from fruits, much of the skin and sometimes pulp can be removed.
You can juice a fruit in a number of ways, but the method I described yields the most juice. You first finely chopped the fruit and then extract the juice from the puree. Home juicers do this by spinning the puree in a sleeve.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingElsewhere View Post
Either way, there is no credible studies suggesting that blending breaks all the fiber cellulose walls.
There are few studies on blending period. But, I'm not sure why you keep saying this to me, I haven't suggested that blending "breaks all the cellulose walls" instead I've suggested that blending transforms a whole fruit into fruit juice + fruit fiber. What was once coupled in the whole fruit, gets separated in the blended puree.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,401 posts, read 34,546,688 times
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When I make a green smoothie with spinach, fresh herbs and whatever fruit I have no one is going to convince this is a bad thing. Common sense needs to be applied, some people make healthy smoothies, some will consider a Shamrock shake a green smoothie.

We are not required to eat every food in it's most ideal form to be healthy, and certainly that would reduce the enjoyment of eating.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Prospect, KY
5,284 posts, read 20,006,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
When I make a green smoothie with spinach, fresh herbs and whatever fruit I have no one is going to convince this is a bad thing. Common sense needs to be applied, some people make healthy smoothies, some will consider a Shamrock shake a green smoothie.

We are not required to eat every food in it's most ideal form to be healthy, and certainly that would reduce the enjoyment of eating.
I drink a green smoothie for dinner every night - I am absolutely positive that they are healthy, have very few calories, little sugar and lots and lots of vitamins, protein and minerals. There are people here on this forum that will argue just to argue - that is what they live for.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
1,373 posts, read 1,646,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raina starling View Post
Man, there is so much ignorance there that I don't know quite where to begin.

I suspect you pulled all these opinions straight from your butt. You are incredibly misinformed.

"A lot of the green smoothie recipes are candy like, which would explain their popularity, they are filled with sugars, fats,etc. "

If by sugar, you mean whole apples blended in a Vitamix or other highspeed blender or whole peeled oranges, then yeah. But if you don't know the different between sugar from whole fruit (frutose + soluable and insoluble fiber) and refined sucrose, I don't know how to help you.

If by fat you mean raw organic extra-virgin coconut oil or a half an avocado, I wonder if you have ever washed coconut oil off a plate versus bacon grease. The latter does NOT dissolve in water while the former does. Saturated animal fat and plant fats are NOT equal!

True. Saturated fat is different. Since this is a vegetarian/vegan forum why is bacon grease on the table on a vegetarian forum? The only place pig fat should be is on a pig!

We all need some fat in order to metabolize food. The best sources are from vegetables.
I get mine from coconuts, avocado and extra virgin olive oil.

Green smoothies can be a good source of greens for people who are on the go - or people who just can't stand the texture of greens. I know of a few people like that, although I can't imagine it.

I love my greens. Every day I eat a mess of them. No pig fat needed.
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