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Old 11-04-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,910 posts, read 6,238,329 times
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I'm so glad to see a section for Vegans (and vegetarians).

I went total fat-free vegan January 1st of this year (2013) because of a "heart scare" that I had, my high cholesterol, pre-diabetes and high blood pressure. Although I am tiny, and I don't appear to have health issues from looking at me, I do.

After hearing the interview with Bill Clinton and his becoming vegan and hearing his doctor's name (Dr. Esselstyn), I began my search. I actually contacted Dr. Esselstyn and he kindly returned my call.

This year has been one of much new discovery, excitement and a hope that I can get my health back.

I did lose 17 pounds since January 1st (a lot for me, as I am only 4-9-1/2"). I am down to 102 lbs. which is a perfect weight for me at my age of 65 (66 in December).

I do belong to a rather large Meet-up group here called "The Friendly Vegans" in Santa Cruz, CA. I went to my first meet-up with them recently, which was held at a local vegetarian restaurant and was pleased to see such a large group (about 25 people showed for this particular evening) and the various ages involved. There were people in their twenties, up to people my age. Their backgrounds and interests were quite varied, and I was surprised to see so many friendly folks there.

I did buy and continue to loan out the DVD "Forks Over Knives." I also have the China Study. I do love the "China Study Cookbook."

I would like this thread to have all sorts of ideas, articles, recipes, groups, seminars, etc. about veganism.

My cholesterol was up in the 300s (it may be hereditary cholesterol...), my blood pressure up in the 140s and lower in the high 90s. My Pre-diabetes was edging up (not a lot, but enough and I had Gestational Diabetes when I was pregnant, so I knew I was already a candidate for Type II).

So, far, my cholesterol has dropped to (total) 215 - still high, but, hey, better than the 300s. My blood pressure is basically normal now (except when upset - lol), and my pre-diabetes is usually into the normal range. Plus, I lost 17 pounds without any specific exercise program!

I have found several vegan blogs that I love and follow regularly:

The Happy Herbivore (and I have her cookbook, too): LEAF: Low Fat, Everyday, Affordable & Fast Recipes | Happy Herbivore

The Fat-Free Vegan: FatFree Vegan Kitchen | Sinlessly Delicious Recipes

The Veggie Diva: Veggie Diva's Kitchen | veggies do it better – vegetarian and vegan recipes, healthy living tips, and more

and....my favorite, so far (although I do have to adapt those with coconut and nuts):
Gluten Free Vegan Girl: Gluten-Free-Vegan-Girl l by Solveig Berg Vollan

I especially love this adorable Norwegian "Gluten Free Vegan Girl" because it is by a 17-year-old Norwegian girl (in Norway) and her recipes are very unique, fun to read, and she has excellent step-by-step photos. Plus, being a teenager, she can be rather silly and she's fun. And it's a different global view, and I love global food. She has cute ideas like this one on this page: Guilt-Free Vegan Chocolate Banana Pops ~ Gluten-Free-Vegan-Girl

Because vegans are not in the majority by any means, I'd love to exchange ideas, recipes, tips, etc., with others who have become vegan.

I'd love to hear what you have found in your own search. Thanks so much!
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,910 posts, read 6,238,329 times
Reputation: 2616
Aw, come on - there have to be others out there doing this -- or no?? I saw some on another thread are trying this. I just wanted to have a place to share a wide variety of information on this topic.

Hope others will join in. Thanks!
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 36,387,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Aw, come on - there have to be others out there doing this -- or no?? I saw some on another thread are trying this. I just wanted to have a place to share a wide variety of information on this topic.

Hope others will join in. Thanks!
I think the confusion is that this entire forum is the place to share a wide variety of information. Every thread is a different topic on the subject. The information is already right here (including a vegetarian/vegan recipe section).
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,964,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Aw, come on - there have to be others out there doing this -- or no?? I saw some on another thread are trying this. I just wanted to have a place to share a wide variety of information on this topic.

Hope others will join in. Thanks!
I just googled city data forum vegan and here you are!

Well, I have a diet on top of a diet. I've been vegetarian since age 20, with only very occasional animal foods. I've always had the propensity toward sweets (and coffee) even on my natural foods fare. I was always whipping up whole wheat cookies, breads, muffins, etc. Took the edge off life.

A few years ago I edged away from prediabetes by making glucose cutbacks. Then I got an autoimmune (arthritis-associated) disorder and started to get really serious about diet. (Nothing like a health scare.)

Since then I eliminated all dairy (except the cream in my coffee), all oils (I believe what Dr. McDougall says about oils, they are not whole or wholesome foods and can clog the liver in some of us), and everything under the sun made with wheat (I believe what Dr. Davis says about modern wheat being poisonous).

What did that leave for me to tackle—my personal dragon? Yes, sweets. Now to be perfectly clear I have had maybe one donut, one piece of cake, and one ice cream sunday in over 30 years. I eat no junk foods ever. But I found out that "natural foods" are a minefield and also can be "junk." I was (well, still am) addicted to Whole Foods muffins and Rice Dream (go, Imagine Foods!) rice ice cream-carob bars. I'm also fond of chocolate covered peanuts. All well and good, for the inherently healthy individual.

But I didn't grow up healthy (not nursed, and very poor foods, so not a great gut) so I'm one of those who gets chronic health problems despite all the attention to diet. I've done a ton of research and have learned all about leaky gut and candida. I got tested and that confirms my self diagnosis. So what's the culprit here? Gluten and glucose. (Oh, the two glu's.) Those are, according to my doctor, directly tied to the autoimmune disease.

So on top of being vegan, I now am in the zone of no oils, no sugars, no wheat and no yeast (and thus no breads ), and so on. So this is a healing, not a lifestyle, diet I'm taking on.

Those I follow are Drs. Davis, McDougall, Eselstyn, T. Colin Campbell, Furhman and others, all of whom to one degree or another espouse veganism. McDougall goes the farthest out, shouting "no oils!" of course that means butter and anything else on the planet that falls into this category.

Oh did I say my allergy tests also say I'm allergic to peanuts? And that candida (which apparently 1 out of 3 of us has) calls for no fermented foods (soysauce, miso, pickles, beer) on top of low glucose??

So I will also follow this thread to see what others come up with, although I know that probably no one else is going to be following my narrow path at an attempt at healing. But I can modify recipes and ideas and share published info as I find it.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,910 posts, read 6,238,329 times
Reputation: 2616
Thanks! AnonChick, yes, I did see the threads, but I am particularly interested in the Cleveland Clinic (Dr. Esselstyn's) and Dr. Colin Campbell's form of veganism. I'm not interested in vegetarian - which is why I posed the topic as "Anything vegan..." not vegetarian. I do feel they are very different.

NewEnglandGirl! Wow, nice seeing you here.

Yes, I am on the no oil, no fat, no dairy, no meat, although I admit that yours is even stricter with no fermented products or gluten. I do use some miso and I do like tempeh, so I have been using those. Although, just the other day my daughter who lived in both Japan and China for a year each recently, had a boyfriend in Japan who is a doctor and he told her that some of the highest death rates in Japan are directly related to miso! I was surprised to hear that. I had heard about pickled/fermented products before causing stomach cancer, but somehow I did not relate it to miso.

Fortunately, I can eat gluten, and I do use seitan. In fact, many years ago I actually had a seitan food company (small business) in Seattle!

I also need to cut down my sugar intake. My latest binge has been sorbet....but it does have some sugar in it. I also like banana breads and things of that sort.

At least I was always allergic to dairy, so that was no problem for me. And I did eat meat and I couldn't figure out why my cholesterol was so high, but then (duh - nothing like waiting until I was in my 60s to figure this out) I realized that although if I ate with other people and we had the same portion of meat -- that I was getting DOUBLE the amount because of my tiny stature! I never thought of that before, and now it makes sense -- it's like I was a huge male consuming loads of beef! So, even a portion of chicken for one person in a restaurant, unless they were an 11-year-old (which is what I am the size and weight of), I was consuming twice what I should have for my size.

My daughter and I went to eat at a local vegetarian restaurant and I needed to have something with no oil. I asked for a portobella mushroom sandwich, and asked if they could just cook it with no oil. They told me "no," that everything was grilled with oil and they would not do that. I asked which foods had no oil -- most everything did except a salad with no dressing, so I finally ended up with a baked yam and a fruit bowl -- but I was surprised there was nothing vegan there -- and this is a huge restaurant with loads of items on the menu! That's when I realized there was such a difference between vegan and vegetarian -- almost all their food had dairy (cheese, milk, etc.) or nuts (cashews, etc.), and always oil. I was very surprised. In fact, when I inquired about "no oil," they harshly admonished me and said quite loudly: "This is a VEGETARIAN restaurant, NOT VEGAN!" I had no clue they would take my (I thought innocent) request like that.

Thus, I do all my cooking at home. Dr. Esselstyn also insists on NO OILS - even avocados (unless you don't have heart disease, then maybe a little here and there) and NO nuts. That's pretty strict.

Sharing some of your modified recipes would be great!!

My daughter is also now trying to follow this, although she is not as strict as me, and only 23. I am proud of her for giving up dairy, as although I never used it, she was addicted to it. It has already cleared up some phlegm for her, and is helping her complexion. I never thought she'd be able to do it, but she has.

Thanks for joining in. Vegan, to me, is very different from vegetarian. Years ago I was macrobiotic (the Kushi's kind, like in Boston) when I lived back east. But that also uses oils -- when I look back on those days, I realized I was eating better, but a lot of food was cooked in oils (especially woks). It wasn't until I saw Colin Campbell's research on oil and dairy that I realized just what was happening. At least you had a head start by being vegetarian already!

Maybe there are a few others attempting to do this. Now that I know just how different vegan is from vegetarian, is why I started this thread. It's just hard to find others who are as strict as you (and as I am trying to be).

Thanks so much!
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,964,817 times
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Regarding oils, not only are they highly processed nonfoods that are highly concentrated (how many sesame seeds does it take to make one Tbsp of oil??), they are stripped of their fiber. To make it worse, when oils are heated, according to these heart specialists the oils become inflammatory in the body. So even if one doesn't eliminate oils (like olive oil for salad dressing), one should strongly consider avoiding anything that has heated oils in or on it (frying, broiling, grilling, baking). I've been off oils for a few months and feel so much better. I don't miss the oils at all. What my must-have items are: something sweet, mostly in the form of a baked treat. One will do; I'm not a hog. But then my stomach feels awful and my symptoms return almost immediately.

The lifestyle in the West is really not suited to veganism. We are a fast food nation and love all the crap that a clean diet would eliminate. I was in a restaurant today and wound up having a grilled veg wrap with goat cheese. Everything but the veg's themselves are on my no list.

I'm not trying to be a purist. If I were really healthy I highly doubt I'd take my diet this far. One thing for sure, when you embark on being a vegan, having a community of like-minded people around for socialization and support is critical.

About macrobiotics the way it was introduced to this country—it is high in sodium with the miso and soysauce and pickles, etc. There's a book called Sugar Fat Salt: How the Food Giants Hooked Us
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us: Michael Moss: 9781400069804: Amazon.com: Books

I wonder if I'll become a giraffe foraging for green leaves in the trees.

Seriously though, lots of good cooks have some great blogs, books and websites devoted to the vegan diet. The ones you mentioned are some of the best.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,964,817 times
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There's no date on this but this is Dr. E's stand on oils

Misleading Research

Dr. McDougall: www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2013other/news/oil.htm

So one of the problems with veganism is that it does not address two elephants in the room: wheat and oil (and also salt).
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,910 posts, read 6,238,329 times
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You're right NewEnglandGirl, salt is also a culprit and wheat can be, too. I think the proper name for this type of "vegan" diet is actually "Plant-Based." I HAVE seen "vegan" recipes using oils, however, I am basically the "plant-based" eater because I do not have the added oils or nuts. But most people use the term "vegan," so it is easier to find on a search.

All true about what you said about oil -- including seeds and nuts. And, yes, the old macrobiotic diet (which is actually where I got my taste for miso from -- was high in salt and oil and fermented products). Ironic that Aveline Kushi died from cancer and her husband, Michio now has cancer.... I also knew his son when I lived in Seattle -- he was working on his Ph.D. and studying the effects of food on cancer. I should see what he is doing now and if he agrees/disagrees/or is in-between with the vegan/plant-based diet. I never see his name mentioned with the people we've mentioned -- I'd be curious to know in what direction he has gone. Interestingly, macrobiotics and the plant-based diet are very closely related -- my only guess is maybe the fat/oil.... It is sad to know after all the hard work that the Kushis did, although older, their bodies still succumbed to that horrible disease.

I think when they did "The China Study" (involving millions of people), that they found the ratio of "fat/oil" to be acceptable in a human without doing damage was around 5-10% -- that's it. And that amount can easily be found totally in a daily intake of just grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits -- I think many people don't realize there are oils in those foods, too. It's the "added" oil (like you said, the refined oils like olive oil) that really do one in.

I do consume some wheat, however, I also use a lot of other grains. Tonight I am making sweet potato and apple soup with a salad. NO OIL! NO MILK! NO WHEAT! Just the "real" thing - sweet potatoes, apples, water, maybe some soy milk, and spices.

Salt, fortunately, I don't have a problem with. That's because my mother had high blood pressure, so she never put salt on the food. She'd put the salt shaker on the table and would say anyone could use it if they wanted to, but none of us bothered to use it. So, I grew up without needing salt in my food (which I am now grateful for).

And here is the medical article in the American Journal of Cardiology by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn called:
Is the Present Therapy for Coronary Artery Disease the Radical Mastectomy of the Twenty-First Century?
The link to the .pdf: http://www.heartattackproof.com/Esse...ll_Article.pdf

If new people come on here, please at least go through Dr. Esselstyn's article listed above. I also hope they read your links you provided, too, prior to this post. Thanks for those!

As an aside, I also worked in a large VA Hospital back east and saw the unfortunate results of heart surgeries....I will politely NOT describe many of the things I knew about - which were never publicized. That was one reason I ended up working in holistic health down the road. Oh, and I also worked in a morgue....(yes, I did!!). So, suffice to say, I do not like going to doctors or hospitals and I am happy to become a total nonfat plant-based eater!! After having seen what I saw in the hospitals (I also worked at a nationally known cancer hospital), I totally agree with Dr. Esseslstyn.

NewEnglandGirl - glad you are on the same page! Wow, I knew you were a careful eater, but didn't know that you were vegan/plant-based eater. I am very proud of you!!

Last edited by Wisteria; 11-06-2013 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:51 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,633,770 times
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not to knock anyone here, but you should google china study debunked...its pretty much one of the worst and most fabricated "scientific study" on planet earth...just sayin'
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,910 posts, read 6,238,329 times
Reputation: 2616
I have seen some of those, and also read the book, and, frankly, the reviews I've seen that "debunk" it have been those who had their own ideas of what they wanted to promote or otherwise believed in. No point in arguing over it, but because I have gotten the results I started for, so for me, it works, and it also makes logical sense to me. There will always be those who will debunk anything that is extreme (or appears extreme). If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to use that information. I found it very helpful (and logical).

This thread is not about debunking a plant-based diet, but rather for those who have chosen to follow it, have gotten good results, or are trying it the first time and would like a little support. It is not at all about debating the merits of it -- whether one thinks it is good or bad. It is merely for those who are engaging in this and would appreciate information (that those of us who have done it or want to do it utilize) that can help us transition into this new world.

If someone wants to start a thread about the pros and cons of various diets, they are welcome to do so. However, this thread is intended for those following or wanting to follow a plant-based diet, and the information that a lot of us use. I am not politically-inclined, and do not want to debate the political/radical/otherwise differences between one program over another. As you know, there will always be differences, so that is why I'd rather we here just stick to the vegan/plant-based programs, and talk about those. Thanks.
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