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Old 09-18-2008, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Charlotte. Or Detroit.
1,455 posts, read 3,655,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
I know what you mean and it goes both ways. When you are a vegatarian/vegan, you are always in the minority. Friends, family, and co-workers can't help themselves in trying to push meat in your face. Not everyone, but it doesn't take too many to become a pain in the butt.

Peace,

XP
Yeah, I'm sure that could get real old really quick. I can relate to that frustration a little; I don't drink alcohol, and some people seem to be completely unable to comprehend that. Why it would make a difference in their lives if I have a beer or not I'll never understand. People don't seem to take time nowadays to see the other side's point of view.
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Old 09-19-2008, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,933 posts, read 3,421,778 times
Reputation: 1895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timm View Post
Yeah, I'm sure that could get real old really quick. I can relate to that frustration a little; I don't drink alcohol, and some people seem to be completely unable to comprehend that. Why it would make a difference in their lives if I have a beer or not I'll never understand. People don't seem to take time nowadays to see the other side's point of view.
Timm,
That is a great comparison. There always seems to be societal pressure to eat meat, drink alcohol, have babies, buy the biggest house you can, etc because that is what most people are doing. Like with meat, its often just assumed that you partake and it is just served to you (only to be turned back). My semi-veg/fading-omni wife does not drink alcohol or coffee so we see this quite a bit.

I think you may have it tougher because vegetarians only encounter it at mealtime but you encounter it in many other situations as well (not to mention the constant advertising). I can't imagine going to someone's wedding is much fun for you, given all of the alcohol involved.

I'm not sure why other people can't accept your choice but much like we tell a new veggie, today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that stood its ground. I think this applies equally to someone in your situation. I wish you the best as you stand strong for what you know is right for you.

Peace,

XP
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: In my Mind
276 posts, read 625,139 times
Reputation: 115
Great thread but the thread kicked off as vegan/vegetarian vs Omnivores/ meat eaters. i didn't think it was an appropriate approach for meat eaters/omnivores to jump into conclusion and debate on their behalf. useful information but as a Vegan i hear it everyday.

i read some comments early which i thought to myself that it was absurd, not all vegans/ vegetarians do think they are more superior than meateaters/ omnivores. Pardon me for using the 'meateaters/ omnivores' some people are actually calling themselves meaterian. As a matter of fact a meatarian can eat all kinds of meat including snake or rat because you classifying yourselves as a carnivore if am not wrong here.

a brief history about myself. i was born in a meat eating family we ate a lot of things even creeping and flying bugs back in Africa. i even ate a wild mice which most meatarians would be disgusted of he idea.My grandma had a farm where i witness cows, pigs, goats slaughtered and they screamed to death and i never had no conscience at all since i was brought up into it.
I became a Vegan for a special reason,' i like eating healthy' is that good enough. it may have not been initially about the animals but since i became one i see the world different, i like animals too and the idea of eating flesh does not excite me any more.

am i wrong not to eat no flesh? issues do rise up when im invited into dinners, not a lot know what Vegans really eat most people think as they apply vegetables that go with their meat a dih with carbohydrate for the main course. Vegans only exclude meat from salads or vegetables making a meal of carbs and vegetable oils or salads, well it is different.

Veganism is much harder than vegetarinism, no eggs no cheese or milk, but i have had to cope over a period of time. i have a question for meatarians and omnivores, first i'll start with the ones that where not meant to be involved in this debate

Meaterians - i have given you a little summary about myself, i mean if you really call yourself a meatarian, which is basically a carnivore.
1. would you eat any flesh raw fresh with blood on it?
2. does the smell of dead meat on market makes you drew?
3. apart from cows, sheeps and chickens what difference will it make eating a mice, because they are both mamals right and pigs are capable of eating meat that makes them omnivores.
4. if you are a carnivore why suffer from '[SIZE=2]Anaemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostate, constipation, diabetes, gall stones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins' all this from meat yet real carnivores is of a different matter.

Omnivores- there has always been a debate whether human beings are omnivores or herbivores even through history humans have been classified as omnivores our bodies are capable of digestive nearly everything because we humans for example so called preserved food full of colouring, refined sugars or trans-fat, you name it. anything that seem tasteful in our mouths has a place in our tummy. Today's food is not about what you can eat and what you can't eat, it's about luxury for our taste buds.

one thing we don't know is what we doing to ourselves inside because it is a different matter for our bodies' to deal with, just like drinking alcohol , you only realise you drunk when your body physically express it to you, on the other hand we blind to know how much work our livers and kidneys are going through at the time.

Point 1 - [/SIZE]
meat protein breaks down it creates an enormous amount of nitrogen-based by-products like urea and ammonia, which can cause a build-up of uric acid. Too much uric acid in your body leads to stiff, sore joints – and, when it crystallizes, can cause gout and increased pain from arthritis. Carnivorous animals, interestingly, produce a substance called uricase, which breaks down uric acid. Humans don’t produce uricase, though – another clue that we’re not meant to be meat-eaters.


it's funny how we all have to argue about food, i just did't like some comments said towards vegans and vegetarians after all it is a vegan/vegetarian forum not a omnivore/ meatarian forum.
i am a proud vegan and difficiency only occurs when your diet is not balanced. Meat is not nutritious what's so nutritous about protein and iron. it may taste good but you can't call meat nutritous and meat is the most processed food on the planet after slaughter. no matter how you slice it cut it or cook it, it is still a dead carcass which eventually decays before it is even digested properly.

did you know -Humans, however, have much, much longer intestines, with food taking from 12 to 19 hours to pass through the digestive system. This is ideal for plant-based foods, allowing our intestinal tracts to absorb every little bit of nutrient available, but it also means that when we eat meat it’s decaying in a warm, moist environment for a very long time. As it slowly rots in our guts, the decaying meat releases free radicals into the body. Free radicals are unstable oxygen molecules that are present to some degree in every body. When you hear advertisements trumpeting the importance of foods and supplements containing cancer-fighting “anti-oxidents,” it’s these free radicals that they’re battling

ignorance lacks education for most we wait to learn from others than creating our own paths of wisdom through acquiring knowledge.

Last edited by jackdonekings; 10-09-2008 at 06:17 PM.. Reason: grammar check
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:45 AM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,119,824 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
Great thread but the thread kicked off as vegan/vegetarian vs Omnivores/ meat eaters. i didn't think it was an appropriate approach for meat eaters/omnivores to jump into conclusion and debate on their behalf. useful information but as a Vegan i hear it everyday.

i read some comments early which i thought to myself that it was absurd, not all vegans/ vegetarians do think they are more superior than meateaters/ omnivores. Pardon me for using the 'meateaters/ omnivores' some people are actually calling themselves meaterian. As a matter of fact a meatarian can eat all kinds of meat including snake or rat because you classifying yourselves as a carnivore if am not wrong here.

a brief history about myself. i was born in a meat eating family we ate a lot of things even creeping and flying bugs back in Africa. i even ate a wild mice which most meatarians would be disgusted of he idea.My grandma had a farm where i witness cows, pigs, goats slaughtered and they screamed to death and i never had no conscience at all since i was brought up into it.
I became a Vegan for a special reason,' i like eating healthy' is that good enough. it may have not been initially about the animals but since i became one i see the world different, i like animals too and the idea of eating flesh does not excite me any more.

am i wrong not to eat no flesh? issues do rise up when im invited into dinners, not a lot know what Vegans really eat most people think as they apply vegetables that go with their meat a dih with carbohydrate for the main course. Vegans only exclude meat from salads or vegetables making a meal of carbs and vegetable oils or salads, well it is different.

Veganism is much harder than vegetarinism, no eggs no cheese or milk, but i have had to cope over a period of time. i have a question for meatarians and omnivores, first i'll start with the ones that where not meant to be involved in this debate

Meaterians - i have given you a little summary about myself, i mean if you really call yourself a meatarian, which is basically a carnivore.
1. would you eat any flesh raw fresh with blood on it?
2. does the smell of dead meat on market makes you drew?
3. apart from cows, sheeps and chickens what difference will it make eating a mice, because they are both mamals right and pigs are capable of eating meat that makes them omnivores.
4. if you are a carnivore why suffer from '[SIZE=2]Anaemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostate, constipation, diabetes, gall stones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins' all this from meat yet real carnivores is of a different matter.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Omnivores- there has always been a debate whether human beings are omnivores or herbivores even through history humans have been classified as omnivores our bodies are capable of digestive nearly everything because we humans for example so called preserved food full of colouring, refined sugars or trans-fat, you name it. anything that seem tasteful in our mouths has a place in our tummy. Today's food is not about what you can eat and what you can't eat, it's about luxury for our taste buds.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]one thing we don't know is what we doing to ourselves inside because it is a different matter for our bodies' to deal with, just like drinking alcohol , you only realise you drunk when your body physically express it to you, on the other hand we blind to know how much work our livers and kidneys are going through at the time.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Point 1 - [/SIZE]meat protein breaks down it creates an enormous amount of nitrogen-based by-products like urea and ammonia, which can cause a build-up of uric acid. Too much uric acid in your body leads to stiff, sore joints – and, when it crystallizes, can cause gout and increased pain from arthritis. Carnivorous animals, interestingly, produce a substance called uricase, which breaks down uric acid. Humans don’t produce uricase, though – another clue that we’re not meant to be meat-eaters.


it's funny how we all have to argue about food, i just did't like some comments said towards vegans and vegetarians after all it is a vegan/vegetarian forum not a omnivore/ meatarian forum.
i am a proud vegan and difficiency only occurs when your diet is not balanced. Meat is not nutritious what's so nutritous about protein and iron. it may taste good but you can't call meat nutritous and meat is the most processed food on the planet after slaughter. no matter how you slice it cut it or cook it, it is still a dead carcass which eventually decays before it is even digested properly.

did you know -Humans, however, have much, much longer intestines, with food taking from 12 to 19 hours to pass through the digestive system. This is ideal for plant-based foods, allowing our intestinal tracts to absorb every little bit of nutrient available, but it also means that when we eat meat it’s decaying in a warm, moist environment for a very long time. As it slowly rots in our guts, the decaying meat releases free radicals into the body. Free radicals are unstable oxygen molecules that are present to some degree in every body. When you hear advertisements trumpeting the importance of foods and supplements containing cancer-fighting “anti-oxidents,” it’s these free radicals that they’re battling

ignorance lacks education for most we wait to learn from others than creating our own paths of wisdom through acquiring knowledge.
Very good read, and very informative, I really like your last statement. I am an "omnivore", and I was just reading at first...then I became defensive, and at times rude, I appologize. I was not "bashing" vegans but merely defending an industry that I am in, and a lifestyle that I have. Not all people who raise animals are cruel like some believe, then figuring that if anyone eats an animal they are also cruel and heartless. I know "leader" of one group of vegetarians that will not talk to his entire family(g-parents to cousins babies) because they eat meat. He was raised on a farm and became vegetarian when he was in college. His "group" has threatened to release all of our livestock, and flatten the tires of our work trucks because we eat/raise livestock. That leader is my cousin, who I knew very well thru HS. Now, I don't think, because of one small group, that all vegetarians are like this and I don't bash all vegetarians because of this group.......understand my connection?

Ok, back to your question....you probably didn't want to hear alll of that "crap" anyway did you?

You are correct, with what I have read on the net, but you leave out a key organ. Yes, we are very similar to herbivores except we have a pancreas. The placement of our eyes, our stomachs, and our brains. I was told on this site that we aren't meant to eat meat cause we cant tear into the animal w/out tools. I know there are many nuts and some fruits come to mind that we need tools to get to the seed/flesh.

I don't believe we can also "only" eat meat. You have stated many facts that show this. I think we are meant to be omnivores, but because of our brains and reasoning, we can eat what we like and not eat what we don't like. (that was a real intelligent line, eh?)

I enjoyed reading your post Jack, thanks.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:08 PM
 
Location: In my Mind
276 posts, read 625,139 times
Reputation: 115
thanks capt. caveman.

i have a good question to ask to all vegetarians. basically we have different types of vegetarians. not to waste time i will talk about the lacto vegetarians that is the general vegetarian that does not eat meat, fish or poultry, but eats eggs and milk. They eat eggs and products made with eggs in them, yogurt, cheese, and ice cream.

alright most of the time a veggie becomes one other than health reasons they are driven by thoughts that invoke a certain connection with animals debating on life, and the cortex of pain in each individual at death or living thing, which leads them to guilt of their conscience. in most cases it doesn't really matter about the intake of animal products such as eggs cheese or milk from other animals.

what makes me wonder is that most vegetarians do not see what i see. imagine a roundish reproductive body produced by the female of certain animals, as birds and most reptiles, consisting of an ovum and its envelope of albumen, jelly, membranes, egg case, or shell, according to species. That sounds like an external foetus which internally exists in all mammals. so basically it is an animals reproductive belonging and when cracked the dead sperm in an egg consists of animal cholesterol.
well hold on a minute animal cholesterol? so basically we still absorbing something from dead animals. since an egg is a cell and meat itself is a group of solidify cells which means both vegetarians and meateaters have a significance amount of animal cholesterol in their blood by all means even vegetarians might have less. my point is if you have sympathy over dead meat or animals why eat the eggs/embryo. what is the difference to kill an unborn child and a living being it would still be classified as murder right.

Milk- is there for our pleasure of having it around and it plays an important raw in our daily food. what's an hoax is telling people milk is a good so of our daily calcium intake like the is no other sources and cheese. well the industry would be happy about bringing more customers by giving them a positive answer for the sake of producing it. here are my negative least about milk:-

  • Whole milk, or anything made of whole milk, is high in saturated fat, which can increase cholesterol level.
  • Milk is a common cause of food allergy (allergy to milk protein).
  • Many people, especially adults, lack the enzyme to digest lactose (milk sugar). This is called lactose intolerance, which causes bloating, gas, and diarrhea.
  • Milk (and meat for that matter) may contain the antibiotics given to the animal before slaughter. It has been argued that when humans then eat the dairy or meat products, they absorb the antibiotics, potentially allowing for bacteria harmful to humans to become more resistant to these antibiotics. The consequence is that when antibiotics are prescribed, they may not be as effective at killing the bacteria as they once were.
  • on top of that we are the only subspecies that drink milk from other animals. let no man cheat you about the positive facts about milk there is always a price to pay
my point is all animal products are here for our taste buds and they all come with a price to pay animal cholesterol, cheese, milk and eggs is more equivalent to living on a meat included diet. wel that's my opinion. food is a delicacy don't get me wrong am only debating in likeness of the subject.

Last edited by jackdonekings; 10-16-2008 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:09 PM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,119,824 times
Reputation: 2661
good post jack, I'm gonna take it one major step forward.

If I read you correctly, then vegans/vegetarians do not use birth control. Am I so far off base that I'm gonna get picked off?(baseball terms, sorry)

That could open a whole new can of beans.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:53 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,159,487 times
Reputation: 18796
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
what makes me wonder is that most vegetarians do not see what i see. imagine a roundish reproductive body produced by the female of certain animals, as birds and most reptiles, consisting of an ovum and its envelope of albumen, jelly, membranes, egg case, or shell, according to species. That sounds like an external foetus which internally exists in all mammals. so basically it is an animals reproductive belonging and when cracked the dead sperm in an egg consists of animal cholesterol.
I assume you're talking about eggs, specifically chicken eggs, since that's what most commonly consumed in our culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
well hold on a minute animal cholesterol? so basically we still absorbing something from dead animals. since an egg is a cell and meat itself is a group of solidify cells which means both vegetarians and meateaters have a significance amount of animal cholesterol in their blood by all means even vegetarians might have less. my point is if you have sympathy over dead meat or animals why eat the eggs/embryo. what is the difference to kill an unborn child and a living being it would still be classified as murder right.
The chicken eggs sold at your friendly local grocery store are unfertilized, so your comparison is invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
Milk- is there for our pleasure of having it around and it plays an important raw in our daily food. what's an hoax is telling people milk is a good so of our daily calcium intake like the is no other sources and cheese. well the industry would be happy about bringing more customers by giving them a positive answer for the sake of producing it. here are my negative least about milk:-

  • Whole milk, or anything made of whole milk, is high in saturated fat, which can increase cholesterol level.
  • Milk is a common cause of food allergy (allergy to milk protein).
  • Many people, especially adults, lack the enzyme to digest lactose (milk sugar). This is called lactose intolerance, which causes bloating, gas, and diarrhea.
  • Milk (and meat for that matter) may contain the antibiotics given to the animal before slaughter. It has been argued that when humans then eat the dairy or meat products, they absorb the antibiotics, potentially allowing for bacteria harmful to humans to become more resistant to these antibiotics. The consequence is that when antibiotics are prescribed, they may not be as effective at killing the bacteria as they once were.
  • on top of that we are the only subspecies that drink milk from other animals. let no man cheat you about the positive facts about milk there is always a price to pay
And that's why I drink soymilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
my point is all animal products are here for our taste buds
And there we disagree.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:54 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,159,487 times
Reputation: 18796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
If I read you correctly, then vegans/vegetarians do not use birth control. Am I so far off base that I'm gonna get picked off?(baseball terms, sorry)
Totally not what the poster said, and completely off-topic.
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