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Old 05-23-2019, 05:20 AM
 
3,715 posts, read 3,125,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey2k View Post
I have found it more often to be the case that people who do eat meat feel the need to give people who don't a hard time.

Defensive Omnivore Bingo

That's been my experience over the 30 years since I stopped eating farm animals. Full disclosure: I eat seafood but still get the snide remarks when I decline meat. I have a couple of family members who still look forward to seeing me at family gatherings just so they can bust out their latest cute vegetarian jabs. Thirty freaking years and it still hasn't stopped.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,981 posts, read 83,656,005 times
Reputation: 41778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
When I was vegetarian, I didn't get questioned at work. We had Muslims and Jews and SDA Christians and Jains and Hindus, etc., all with dietary restrictions. You don't say rude things to people about what they eat or don't eat in a multicultural environment.

My biggest encounter with stupid remarks was my FAMILY. Two sisters in particular. Even last November, at the lunch for my mother's 90th birthday, I could hear one of those sisters across the table say loudly to one of my brothers, "SO ARE YOU STILL EATING TORTURED AND SLAUGHTERED ANIMALS? BECAUSE I AM."

This was supposed to get at my daughter, who is vegan. At 27, she's a lot more mature than her 58-year-old aunt, because she just ignored the remarks and continued with the conversation she was having.

The other stupid remark I remember getting was from a priest of all people. He is a friend, and was once the priest at my church. He is now at another church and we were attending a movie night where food was provided. There was Italian food, lasagna or ziti or something, and I asked if there was any meat in it because I was vegetarian. A lady said yes, there was ground beef in the sauce. The priest looked at me and waved his hand over the food and then said, "There. Now there's not any meat in it so you can have it" and then he laughed and walked away. I thought that was pretty obnoxious, and I haven't felt as friendly toward him since then.
I would certainly hope he was trying to be funny: otherwise I agree with you 100% We have an opposite example and a positive one. Last year when we were celebrating our 60th wedding anniversary out kids had a huge party for us at our local club. While planning the menu the manager suggested we have, at least one vegan dish. This would never have occurred to any of us, knowing none of us are vegans or vegetarians. Well our granddaughter is almost a vegetarian and I think she will eventually be one. Anyway, we, of course went along with her suggestion. I thought she was really doing her job, by suggesting this to us. No, there were no vegan among the 60 or so guests, but the appetizer that was vegan was pretty darn good and we all agreed it was an outstanding suggestion. I think we all have to remember, our eating habits may not be the same as everyone elses. The important thing ans what I was getting at is anyone trying to push their views, regardless of the reason down anyone's throat or tying to convert someone. it is like the non alcoholic drinker that lectures others on the benefits of not drinking.
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:09 AM
 
9,078 posts, read 9,512,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
In my view, the only technically valid argument against veganism is, supposedly, lack of vitamin B-12.

I didn't sit through that 20-minute video, did the speaker address that issue?

I have heard of nutritional yeast and supplements to overcome that supposed problem.

However, does anyone have an argument or evidence that the claim simply isn't true, that lack of vitamin B-12 is a myth, that it really doesn't matter, that plant-based foods do supply it, that the human body produces its own?

Thanks.
He doesn't address nutritional issues in the video, t's about his journey from being a die hard meat eater to becoming vegan. It's worth the 20 minutes, he's a really good speaker. You don't need to watch it, you can just listen. (I've heard him speak many times but not this specific speech, so I just listened on my headphones at work)

As for B12, yes it is something that can be lacking in a vegan diet...but it is also likely lacking in most meat eaters as well. B12 does not come from any plant or animal source. It comes from bacterial found in soil. Humans used to get plenty of it by eating plants, but with washing everything, that is no longer the case. Humans now get it from fortified cereals, milks, nooch (nutritional yeast), and supplements. Meat eaters also can get it from eating animals, but animals do not produce it. They only have it because they have eaten the bacteria or they are supplemented themselves.

There is a misconception that animals produce it. They do not. If you get B12 from eating them, it's second hand. As a vegan it is easy to get B12...fortified cereals, plant milks, nooch, supplements...

In my various vegan groups, this topic comes up all of the time. Many people say their B12 levels are fine on a vegan diet without supplementing at all. It's funny how people suddenly become so concerned with your nutrition when they find out you are vegan
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:36 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,619 posts, read 10,679,859 times
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Thanks to ComeCloser and ElleTea for answering my question about B-12. Can't give you two any more rep right now, so thanks again.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,536 posts, read 62,986,490 times
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I have seen more vegetarians attacking omnivores and vegetarians getting attacked for their choices. I do not care what someone eats unless: 1. We are going out to eat together; or 2. they want to eat humans. However I do not like when vegetarians try to attack or compel conversion of people who choose to remain omnivores. When they do attack, I just ask them whether any of the following are true:

Vegetarians live longer than omnivores.
Vegetarians have a lower rate of cancer than omnivores.
Vegetarians are not overweight as frequently as omnivores.
Vegetarians have generally better health than omnivores.
Vegetarians get all the nutrients they need and do not ever need any supplements.
People under 26 do not need fat for brain development.


Since none of these facts are true, there is no compelling reason to convert or to push other people to convert. It is simply a choice people can make based on their personal preferences. One way or the other is not a more right way to live. Just live as you chose and let others live as they chose. Worrying about other people's choices will do mtre to shorten your live and degrade your health than your style of food choices. . One way or the other, you will eventually die, probably of cancer. You diet is not going to change that s long as you are reasonable about whatever you choose to eat.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:20 AM
 
9,078 posts, read 9,512,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I have seen more vegetarians attacking omnivores and vegetarians getting attacked for their choices. I do not care what someone eats unless: 1. We are going out to eat together; or 2. they want to eat humans. However I do not like when vegetarians try to attack or compel conversion of people who choose to remain omnivores. When they do attack, I just ask them whether any of the following are true:

Vegetarians live longer than omnivores.
Vegetarians have a lower rate of cancer than omnivores.
Vegetarians are not overweight as frequently as omnivores.
Vegetarians have generally better health than omnivores.
Vegetarians get all the nutrients they need and do not ever need any supplements.
People under 26 do not need fat for brain development.


Since none of these facts are true, there is no compelling reason to convert or to push other people to convert. It is simply a choice people can make based on their personal preferences. One way or the other is not a more right way to live. Just live as you chose and let others live as they chose. Worrying about other people's choices will do mtre to shorten your live and degrade your health than your style of food choices. . One way or the other, you will eventually die, probably of cancer. You diet is not going to change that s long as you are reasonable about whatever you choose to eat.
Vegetarians are still consuming animal products so they may not have measurable health benefits.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:24 PM
 
596 posts, read 267,048 times
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Suburban Guy, thank you for your post/video. Very interesting to hear another person's POV.

It would be interesting to know where all he has traveled, to see what crops can be grown for human consumption in those areas. I'm not a well traveled person as I only know about a few areas.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:24 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,619 posts, read 10,679,859 times
Reputation: 5774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

there is no compelling reason to convert or to push other people to convert. It is simply a choice people can make based on their personal preferences. One way or the other is not a more right way to live. Just live as you chose and let others live as they chose.
I agree. I stumbled onto veganism because it makes me feel good NOW, not for some ideological reasons or because I expect that single variable to make me live longer; I know I could die tomorrow in an accident or in two years due to cancer, but I want to get it right for me NOW, which is, in effect, forever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
... as long as you are reasonable about whatever you choose to eat ...
Having said that, there is a good argument that Americans, on the whole, over the past 25-50 years or so have exaggerated in terms of quantities consumed and in the proportion of processed sugary and fatty foods.

Though of course each individual outcome is different based on a whole host of other factors besides diet, I think there is no doubt that moderate quantities of food, with lower proportions of processed sugars and fats and a higher proportion of fresh vegetables, improves the odds for most people.

And that is a public health policy issue.

Last edited by bale002; 05-23-2019 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Anchorage
385 posts, read 189,488 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTea View Post

By the way, a vegan diet is not restrictive at all

It most certainly is. In the past couple of months I've eaten beef, pork, chicken, turkey, eggs, moose, bison, salmon, cod, rockfish, caribou, red king crab, spot shrimp, dungeness crab, clams and oysters. A vegan is "restricted" from eating any of those. I've eaten a ton of fresh vegetables in that same time period too. I love variety. Don't eat that stuff if you don't want to but please don't tell me that I can't.
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Illinois
272 posts, read 69,443 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northrick View Post
It most certainly is. In the past couple of months I've eaten beef, pork, chicken, turkey, eggs, moose, bison, salmon, cod, rockfish, caribou, red king crab, spot shrimp, dungeness crab, clams and oysters. A vegan is "restricted" from eating any of those. I've eaten a ton of fresh vegetables in that same time period too. I love variety. Don't eat that stuff if you don't want to but please don't tell me that I can't.

Did I miss something? Who told you that you can't make your own choices, good or bad? And by the way, "restricted" is when you want to eat something and can't. Choosing to not eat something, is a choice not a restriction.
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