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Old 05-24-2019, 08:39 AM
 
9,069 posts, read 9,502,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
I intended to watch the whole video but decided I didn't need to once he brought up dog-fighting and FGM. I mean, seriously...

No one likes to think of the suffering of any living thing, but the fact that animals must endure it to feed humans is indeed a poor argument for veganism. Somewhere in Africa there's a gazelle having its entrails ripped out by a ferocious lion, probably while he's still conscious, and he must be thinking "man, veganism is good for all those cows out west, but I wish they could do something for my situation" . That same lion would have no qualms about going after my jugular, if it were hungry enough.

It sounds terrible, but it is in fact the circle of life. Most every living creature that walks this earth will suffer, will die, and will be returned to the very ground from which it came (Gen 3:19)
You should have watched the rest, he talks about the "but lions do it" thing specifically
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Miami-Dade
396 posts, read 136,527 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTea View Post
You should have watched the rest, he talks about the "but lions do it" thing specifically
And I can guarantee you I've already heard his rebuttal dozens of times. But maybe you should explain what you think I'm missing.
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,856 posts, read 14,364,134 times
Reputation: 30717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
Did I miss something? Who told you that you can't make your own choices, good or bad? And by the way, "restricted" is when you want to eat something and can't. Choosing to not eat something, is a choice not a restriction.
I am sorry, but it is. When your choices are restricted to a smaller universe of possibilities than otherwise, you are being restricted.. When I choose to eat fewer carbs than I want to, I am restricting my choices.

I donít mind if people eat vegan. It is your choice. But you should not be playing mind games about your restrictive eating habits. And it is tiresome when vegans and vegetarians get self righteous about their choices.

But it is a free country. Choose to eat as you wish. I respect your choices.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Illinois
272 posts, read 68,583 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I am sorry, but it is. When your choices are restricted to a smaller universe of possibilities than otherwise, you are being restricted.. When I choose to eat fewer carbs than I want to, I am restricting my choices.

I donít mind if people eat vegan. It is your choice. But you should not be playing mind games about your restrictive eating habits. And it is tiresome when vegans and vegetarians get self righteous about their choices.

But it is a free country. Choose to eat as you wish. I respect your choices.
It's OK for you to label my choices of food that I wish to eat as restrictive, but I don't. But please explain to me how I am playing games by eating foods that I prefer to eat, yet not caring what anyone else's choices may be. How do you perceive my non-judgmental behavior to be self-righteous? I have not said one thing about your choices in life. That is for you to determine. I try to do what is best for me, as should you.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:46 PM
 
930 posts, read 256,090 times
Reputation: 2540
Only answer to the arguments I need: "You eat the way you want, and I'll eat the way I want." My nutrition is my worry, not someone else's-- I pay my own medical bills.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I don't think there is any reason to belittle or question people based on their diet choices. Of course some may wonder about a person's choices but that is not making fun of them or an attempt at putting people down. I think it is more a question of wanting to understand why some people choose one way and others another. What I have a problem with and I do see this often, is people who do choose a restricted diet and put others down for not eating the way they do. I have come across a few vegans and vegetarians that do give the impression that are just a little better or a little more knowlegable than those who do not agree with them. I cal them very self righteous.
I get the same thing from smug meat-eaters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Northrick View Post
That's just it. That's where I see this going - a push to stop those of us who enjoy meat from being allowed to eat it. If you eat any animal product you are, by definition, not a vegan. If you choose to be a vegan you are restricted from eating a lot of foods.
Why? Who is telling you you're not allowed to eat meat? Why do you care if someone else is "restricted" from eating certain foods if you yourself are not eating this way? People on medical or religious diets or who have certain allergies are also "restricted" from eating some things... are you concerned about them as well?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
I intended to watch the whole video but decided I didn't need to once he brought up dog-fighting and FGM. I mean, seriously...

No one likes to think of the suffering of any living thing, but the fact that animals must endure it to feed humans is indeed a poor argument for veganism. Somewhere in Africa there's a gazelle having its entrails ripped out by a ferocious lion, probably while he's still conscious, and he must be thinking "man, veganism is good for all those cows out west, but I wish they could do something for my situation" . That same lion would have no qualms about going after my jugular, if it were hungry enough.

So humans don't need meat, you say. Well, neither does that lion need it as often as he goes after it, but he does anyway because it's accessible and it provides him with desired nutrients. The exact same reason humans eat meat/dairy/eggs.

It sounds terrible, but it is in fact the circle of life. Most every living creature that walks this earth will suffer, will die, and will be returned to the very ground from which it came (Gen 3:19)
So you're saying humans are no more advanced than lions, and that people shouldn't have concern about a bad situation because it's also occurring elsewhere/someone else has it worse?

Interesting points of view.


Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I am sorry, but it is. When your choices are restricted to a smaller universe of possibilities than otherwise, you are being restricted.. When I choose to eat fewer carbs than I want to, I am restricting my choices.
I hate onions and choose not to eat them. Does that mean my diet is "restricted"?
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:55 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,906 posts, read 673,864 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
I'm sorry, I either mis-stated or you misunderstood me. My point is that we all make choices for reasons that we choose and it's not right for others to judge us because of our choices except if we start hurting others by those choices. It is nobody's business to judge anyone by which foods we eat or don't eat. The life we have been given is ours to enjoy how we each choose to live it. IMO, we all need to focus more on our own life and less on others'.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I look at the diet as restrictive, but only because its not mainstream. I can get vegetarian options easy enough, but I don't live in an area that is a proud supporter of vegan. Many products labeled vegan, I don't personally view as healthy - like spreads with canola oil. In that sense, its restrictive, because I am restricting myself to making my own food most of the time. Even my own pantry items like buttery tasting spreads.

I also prefer the diet because I enjoy the flavors of what I make so very much. BBQ Pinto beans with chipotle peppers. Korean Japchae. Ratatouille with cannellini beans, bell peppers and thyme and oregano. For some reason spices seem to dance on my palate now. I don't know how else to describe it. Middle eastern pita chips with zaatar on the side of French green lentil and bulgur soup with spinach. Black bean burgers that aren't a nightmare of sodium. I can go on and on.

I had lost that love of food and flavor - craving something only to be let down by it not being as tasty as I had remembered it to be. Vegan brought flavor back to me, and I literally cant wait to eat my lunch these days because I know how great its going to taste.

Another positive side effect of going vegan - I had suffered all my life from seasonal allergies and bronchitis at least twice a year. I had heard in the past that milk/dairy produces mucus. This year proved that to be a fact for me. Although tree pollen and mold spores have been high this Spring in my area, only slight congestion that has remained localized to my throat has happened. So mild that its not really worth mentioning, except for the fact the season came and left me NOT experiencing mind numbing sinus pain and congestion, and bronchitis that would leave me unable to sleep at night without a syrup containing codeine. THAT alone is enough to keep me maintaining a primarily vegan way of life.

I may take an infrequent break and have an ice cream cone or something while out with friends, but dairy is gone from my home and I will continue to have 'better half' in my coffee every morning.

Last edited by ComeCloser; 05-24-2019 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Illinois
272 posts, read 68,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Thanks for clearing that up.
We are good ComeCloser, be well!
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:24 PM
 
817 posts, read 1,431,493 times
Reputation: 1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
To me, this type of discussion gets old very fast. This is America!
Land of the free, home of the brave. Here we are free to choose our destiny, food being a part of destiny. No one has a proverbial gun to their head forcing them to eat ... sushi! If you want to eat sushi...eat it. I truly don't care. If you choose to eat salad in your hot tub....do it. Individual choices for individuals. It's your life, do with your life what you want. I certainly am going to continue to do what I want as well. If you want salmon, eat salmon, I don't think less of you for your choice, if you feel guilty of your choice, you need to talk with you about it not anyone else. I have no problem with people making choices different from mine, I don't pass judgment on anyone and I prefer they not pass judgment on me. We are good until you do!

There's a couple of this is America posts, but how come slaughterhouses are prohibited from using dogs, cats, dolphins, or horses if this is a free country? I am a meat eater myself, but the U.S. has its own cultural preferences and is certainly no land of the free in regards to food consumption laws.

I could imagine a distant future where humans don't eat meat and look back on us as savages. Until then, I'll keep eating meat.

One of my issues with a vegetarian or vegan diet is that I have Crohn's disease and any flare-ups I've had in the past were due to too much roughage in my diet. Processed, fatty foods will irritate my stomach as well but have never lead to an actual flare up and I don't consume them often. There are some vegetables that I just can't eat, especially raw, such as celery. I love green, leafy vegetables, but I do have to watch how much I eat in case of a flare-up. I don't eat many simple starches such as bread or rice, which supply minimal nutrition, so I do get a lot of my nutrition from lean meat, salmon, eggs, and nuts.

I'm guessing if I really wanted to find a vegan diet that would keep the amount of fiber to an acceptable range, I could do so. However, I have no inclination to embark upon that journey.

If others choose to do so, good for them, maybe they are doing the right thing and they should feel good about themselves.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Miami-Dade
396 posts, read 136,527 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
So you're saying humans are no more advanced than lions, and that people shouldn't have concern about a bad situation because it's also occurring elsewhere/someone else has it worse?

Interesting points of view.
No, I'm saying it isn't logical to argue that animal suffering is only abhorrent when it is caused by humans. Human beings are animals, afterall, and I believe we have as much right as every other living creature to get nutrition in any way that we see fit.

If they want more people to go vegan/plant-based, then simply persuade them with the many proven health benefits that come from that change in lifestyle. Don't try to guilt folks into it. Because there is no logical explanation for why cows and chickens don't deserve to suffer but gazelles do.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:46 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,906 posts, read 673,864 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
One of my issues with a vegetarian or vegan diet is that I have Crohn's disease and any flare-ups I've had in the past were due to too much roughage in my diet. Processed, fatty foods will irritate my stomach as well but have never lead to an actual flare up and I don't consume them often. There are some vegetables that I just can't eat, especially raw, such as celery. I love green, leafy vegetables, but I do have to watch how much I eat in case of a flare-up. I don't eat many simple starches such as bread or rice, which supply minimal nutrition, so I do get a lot of my nutrition from lean meat, salmon, eggs, and nuts.

I'm guessing if I really wanted to find a vegan diet that would keep the amount of fiber to an acceptable range, I could do so. However, I have no inclination to embark upon that journey.

If others choose to do so, good for them, maybe they are doing the right thing and they should feel good about themselves.

Going vegan to pacify Crohn's disease — Plant Shift


There are many references to raw vegan diets helping you - but, I don't agree. I prefer to cook my food for ease of digestion, as Ayurveda leans toward cooked veggies over raw roughage.

I still eat cabbage slaw that aren't cooked, but the bulk of my diet is not raw. As one who has suffered with severe gastritis and almost diagnosed as having IBS, I can tell you that vegan has benefited me that way as well. My symptoms are about 80% less that what they used to be.

Eggs are heavy. Milk creates mucus, and I don't know it for a fact, but probably contributes to flatulence and bloating - I mean, after all, even babies need burping after they have had a bottle or they will throw it back up.

Vegetables are easier for your body to digest than meat and dairy. Whole grains are more nutritious than bread and rice and also easy for the body to digest. Many whole grains are also protein laden, like quinoa as an example.

I'm sure if you really think about it, you can imagine your Crohn's benefiting by eating things that are easy for your body to digest. But by all means, eat the way you feel is right for you.
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