U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Vegetarian and Vegan Food
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-24-2019, 06:06 PM
 
817 posts, read 1,433,517 times
Reputation: 1476

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Going vegan to pacify Crohn's disease — Plant Shift


There are many references to raw vegan diets helping you - but, I don't agree. I prefer to cook my food for ease of digestion, as Ayurveda leans toward cooked veggies over raw roughage.

I still eat cabbage slaw that aren't cooked, but the bulk of my diet is not raw. As one who has suffered with severe gastritis and almost diagnosed as having IBS, I can tell you that vegan has benefited me that way as well. My symptoms are about 80% less that what they used to be.

Eggs are heavy. Milk creates mucus, and I don't know it for a fact, but probably contributes to flatulence and bloating - I mean, after all, even babies need burping after they have had a bottle or they will throw it back up.

Vegetables are easier for your body to digest than meat and dairy. Whole grains are more nutritious than bread and rice and also easy for the body to digest. Many whole grains are also protein laden, like quinoa as an example.

I'm sure if you really think about it, you can imagine your Crohn's benefiting by eating things that are easy for your body to digest. But by all means, eat the way you feel is right for you.

Thanks for sharing this! I will definitely read through it. Not having read through this page at the moment, it does seem every form of Crohn's is different.

My first ever flare up was when I was training for a marathon and I was very slim and healthy. I read a lot about fiber and increased the amount of vegetables, mainly celery, broccoli, and cabbage. I felt like I was on the right track and then one day to another had a weird feeling in my stomach area. Several months later I was diagnosed with Crohn's. After all the craziness and medication, I slowly started working in vegetables again and then got to a level where I was eating a high plant-based diet and then again had a flare up.

I still eat way more vegetables than the average American and have learned which ones really set me off and which ones I can get away with. I've never had an issue with dairy, eggs, or meats. I don't really drink milk though and tend to stick to yogurt.

My story with Crohn's seems to be the opposite of most people who are eating junk and then switch to a healthy diet. My first bout with it was when I felt really healthy and was eating a primarily plant-based diet. At that time, I only ate eggs maybe once a month, and thought people ate way too much protein in the form of meat.

Right now, eating what I consider healthy forms of meat with plenty of fats, I've been completely off of my Crohn's medication for about 6 months and have no issues. I do love vegetables though, and know meat isn't necessarily the best for a long life, so I will do some reading on veganism with Crohn's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-24-2019, 06:15 PM
 
18,367 posts, read 23,547,048 times
Reputation: 34432
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTea View Post
People know, but they don't know, and don't want to know. It's called cognitive dissonance. Even Ed says in his video that when he asks to show people slaughterhouse footage, they say "come on, I don't want to see that." Also, if people REALLY knew, they wouldn't fall for such things as "free range" and "cage free" and "humane slaughter."
im guessing you haven't been in very many slaughterhouses..... I have from the biggest to local ones...
and ive killed hundreds of animals to cut up off local farms thru the years....

these animals were treated very well...and I gave them the ultimate respect....a quick death …

ive seen firsthand how nature dispatches its own animals from a slow starving death to 4 coyotes eating a live deer on the ice....
nature is much cruel-er than anything ive seen..


since this thread is about every vegan argument...id like to offer mine..
if vegans are for the helpless animals, if vegans are for the voiceless......if vegans despise the fact that humans kill animals for his own luxury or convenience...…..when there are better alternatives..... then …..why don't vegans protest abortions????? why is one ok but not the other??? its ok to kill a human baby but not have a hot dog???
and don't give me ...its only a fetus...no its a life that gets snuffed out..

and because of this...….vegans are the biggest hypocrites on the planet....

also ive yet to see one vegan protest against the commercial harvesting of vegetables...that do in fact kill hundreds of thousands of animals...… but again...I guess those animals don't matter..


the slaughterhouses have cleaned up their act...in the past 20 years.... its in their best interest the animal is not stressed when bolted or shot.. they bleed better ..


ive cleaned up my response a lot... much less graphic..most vegans are empaths and cant even watch nature shows of lions feeding....so I tried to temper my response.....just being considerate..

Last edited by mainebrokerman; 05-24-2019 at 06:59 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Illinois
272 posts, read 69,778 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
There's a couple of this is America posts, but how come slaughterhouses are prohibited from using dogs, cats, dolphins, or horses if this is a free country? I am a meat eater myself, but the U.S. has its own cultural preferences and is certainly no land of the free in regards to food consumption laws.

I could imagine a distant future where humans don't eat meat and look back on us as savages. Until then, I'll keep eating meat.

One of my issues with a vegetarian or vegan diet is that I have Crohn's disease and any flare-ups I've had in the past were due to too much roughage in my diet. Processed, fatty foods will irritate my stomach as well but have never lead to an actual flare up and I don't consume them often. There are some vegetables that I just can't eat, especially raw, such as celery. I love green, leafy vegetables, but I do have to watch how much I eat in case of a flare-up. I don't eat many simple starches such as bread or rice, which supply minimal nutrition, so I do get a lot of my nutrition from lean meat, salmon, eggs, and nuts.

I'm guessing if I really wanted to find a vegan diet that would keep the amount of fiber to an acceptable range, I could do so. However, I have no inclination to embark upon that journey.

If others choose to do so, good for them, maybe they are doing the right thing and they should feel good about themselves.
Why it's ok to butcher some species but not others is a political hot potato in the U.S. No politician would ever be for pet species as food here. Horse thieves were hung on sight at one time.

For your Crohn's issues check out Dr Greger's site for some good food advice. www.nutritionfacts.org
Good luck to you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2019, 06:43 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
1,522 posts, read 685,521 times
Reputation: 2383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
..why don't vegans protest abortions?????
Why don't abortion opponents protest war???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2019, 07:18 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
1,906 posts, read 676,563 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
Thanks for sharing this! I will definitely read through it. Not having read through this page at the moment, it does seem every form of Crohn's is different.

My first ever flare up was when I was training for a marathon and I was very slim and healthy. I read a lot about fiber and increased the amount of vegetables, mainly celery, broccoli, and cabbage. I felt like I was on the right track and then one day to another had a weird feeling in my stomach area. Several months later I was diagnosed with Crohn's. After all the craziness and medication, I slowly started working in vegetables again and then got to a level where I was eating a high plant-based diet and then again had a flare up.

I still eat way more vegetables than the average American and have learned which ones really set me off and which ones I can get away with. I've never had an issue with dairy, eggs, or meats. I don't really drink milk though and tend to stick to yogurt.

My story with Crohn's seems to be the opposite of most people who are eating junk and then switch to a healthy diet. My first bout with it was when I felt really healthy and was eating a primarily plant-based diet. At that time, I only ate eggs maybe once a month, and thought people ate way too much protein in the form of meat.

Right now, eating what I consider healthy forms of meat with plenty of fats, I've been completely off of my Crohn's medication for about 6 months and have no issues. I do love vegetables though, and know meat isn't necessarily the best for a long life, so I will do some reading on veganism with Crohn's.
You're welcome. I can add to your experience as well. I think there is something in the dynamic between meat/diary and fruit/veggies that causes something akin to a chemical reaction.

In my own experience, while still very much a meat/egg/dairy eater, I had a salad one day. Within an hour, I suddenly felt like I was digesting glass shards. I naturally determined that I simply couldn't eat raw veggies anymore. Instead of viewing the occurrence as a total chemical reaction - I just determined that the raw veggies alone caused the problem. My point here is it seems there is like an antagonistic relationship between the two diets - sort of like there is between an herbivore and a carnivore in the wild.

Interestingly enough, now that I have made transition, I eat raw veggies with no problems, but I still adhere to the basic Ayurvedic concept that cooked food is better. It not only is easier to digest internally, but also doesn't make your body work as hard thereby costing you energy that can be applied elsewhere in your life.

You seem to be doing a keto-type thing for your Crohns, and you say it has been good for that. Knowing some of the pain from that type of malady, Im not sure I would mess with it. However, there is a problem - as Jillian Michael's explains, Keto keeps your body in a state of emergency.

ketogenesis: The formation of acid KETONE BODIES, as in uncontrolled DIABETES, starvation or as a result of a diet with a very high fat content.

Ketogenesis: the production of ketone bodies which occurs particularly during starvation.

Over a long period, that is going to stress out other areas of your body - most notably cardio-vascular, and possibly your pancreas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
For your Crohn's issues check out Dr Greger's site for some good food advice. www.nutritionfacts.org
Good luck to you!
I bought his cookbook: The How Not To Die Cookbook. I found it so informative that I also bought the book: How not to die. The site is a great resource for TX and anyone else looking to eat and live healthier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2019, 11:23 AM
 
946 posts, read 262,118 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
No, I'm saying it isn't logical to argue that animal suffering is only abhorrent when it is caused by humans. Human beings are animals, afterall, and I believe we have as much right as every other living creature to get nutrition in any way that we see fit.

If they want more people to go vegan/plant-based, then simply persuade them with the many proven health benefits that come from that change in lifestyle. Don't try to guilt folks into it. Because there is no logical explanation for why cows and chickens don't deserve to suffer but gazelles do.
That's like saying that because someone somewhere murders other people, that I can too because I'm apparently hypocritical for saying people shouldn't be murdered since it happens. Do I chase and eat gazelles? No. So what do lions have to do with me and the way I eat or the reasons I do so? Gazelles don't deserve to suffer, but I can't change that. I can change whether I contribute to the suffering of factory-farmed animals in the U.S.

If you can reason with a lion about its diet the way you could with people, I'm sure people would. You're comparing apples and oranges when you say that because an animal halfway across the world does something, it means human beings can't choose to do differently here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
since this thread is about every vegan argument...id like to offer mine..
if vegans are for the helpless animals, if vegans are for the voiceless......if vegans despise the fact that humans kill animals for his own luxury or convenience.....when there are better alternatives..... then ..why don't vegans protest abortions????? why is one ok but not the other??? its ok to kill a human baby but not have a hot dog???
and don't give me ...its only a fetus...no its a life that gets snuffed out..

and because of this....vegans are the biggest hypocrites on the planet....
Now you're just being silly. Why are people against abortions not protesting the death penalty? Why aren't they protesting war? Why aren't they protesting people who die due to lack of good enough medical care? Why aren't they protesting every murder? Why aren't they against people starving to death?

Do you see how ridiculous this is? You can't expect every person in the world to have to care equally about every issue because they care about some issues. It boggles my mind that some people still think this is a valid argument.

In addition, please cite how you know veg{etari}ans don't care about abortion. All of them? You've asked every single one in the world? You must be busy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2019, 12:48 PM
 
9,080 posts, read 9,517,396 times
Reputation: 7974
Abortion debate has no place in this forum.
__________________
My posts as moderator will be in red.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Miami-Dade
396 posts, read 137,649 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
That's like saying that because someone somewhere murders other people, that I can too because I'm apparently hypocritical for saying people shouldn't be murdered since it happens.
Well, there are laws in place to prevent you from getting away with mudering other people. That doesn't mean that the urge to do so is unnatural. In times and places where such laws haven't existed, killing others was a way of life. Technically, it is sanctioned in our society, since human beings kill each other in wars.

Quote:
Do I chase and eat gazelles? No. So what do lions have to do with me and the way I eat or the reasons I do so? Gazelles don't deserve to suffer, but I can't change that. I can change whether I contribute to the suffering of factory-farmed animals in the U.S.

If you can reason with a lion about its diet the way you could with people, I'm sure people would. You're comparing apples and oranges when you say that because an animal halfway across the world does something, it means human beings can't choose to do differently here.
Of course we can choose to do differently. The question is why we should be made to feel guilty if we choose not to.

In an ideal world, no living thing would have to suffer ever. But in the world we actually live in, animals use other animals for food, and some of those animals even use human beings for food, so why should humans be the only species on Earth to be pressured into giving up animal products? Because I'm more intelligent than a lion that means I have less of a right to enjoy meat than he does?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
1,522 posts, read 685,521 times
Reputation: 2383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
In an ideal world, no living thing would have to suffer ever. But in the world we actually live in, animals use other animals for food, and some of those animals even use human beings for food, so why should humans be the only species on Earth to be pressured into giving up animal products? Because I'm more intelligent than a lion that means I have less of a right to enjoy meat than he does?
Lions don't know morality. They hunt, eat, sleep, breed, raise baby lions, and fight with their rivals (hyenas, or other lions)... that's how they live.
Humans have a sense of morality... we know that some of the things we might want to do are wrong. We don't all agree on what's moral,
but some of us believe that killing other creatures for the flavor of their flesh is wrong. Naturally we'd like others to adopt this view too,
so that fewer animals will suffer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2019, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Miami-Dade
396 posts, read 137,649 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW4me View Post
Lions don't know morality. They hunt, eat, sleep, breed, raise baby lions, and fight with their rivals (hyenas, or other lions)... that's how they live.
We've established this already.

Quote:
Humans have a sense of morality... we know that some of the things we might want to do are wrong. We don't all agree on what's moral,
but some of us believe that killing other creatures for the flavor of their flesh is wrong.
On its own, meat doesn't actually taste that great to most people, so I think it's disingenuous to suggest that flavor is the only thing we get out of it. It is also used by the human body for nutrition.

Quote:
Naturally we'd like others to adopt this view too,
so that fewer animals will suffer.
I've seen some vegans say that they would like for all of humanity to be exclusively plant eaters, but do we have any reason to believe this is actually sustainable? So some animals no longer suffer while other animals continue to suffer. What does that accomplish?.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Vegetarian and Vegan Food
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top