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Old 10-08-2008, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Maine
6,048 posts, read 11,410,733 times
Reputation: 5504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
MW, I am an owner of what you would call a factory farm w/land, cattle, and pigs. Most of what you say is just not correct, out here anyway. I'm not going to say everyone, but in our area things must be different.
I remember. You've said it before.

Quote:
We have pig barns that keep them cool in the summer and warm in the winter, we have shelter belts for cattle to keep them warm in the winter. If not for shelter, many(if not most) would freeze to death in the winter. Giving them a dry place to lay leads to less health problems during the wet season.
Hardy stock here doesn't die in winter without barns. I'm sure a lot of that is due to hardy breeds accustomed to Maine winters.

Quote:
Pigs are on concrete alot, and we have foot/hip problems on less than 1%.
This might sound like an odd question but here goes. Do you breed for this? When I bred rabbits I bred for dense fur on feet. The fur protected feet from wire bottom cages. Thinly furred feet would develop sores.

Quote:
The sides are open when hot and about 1/2 closed when it is cold. They see the light of day, they have fresh air/water/feed and have a roof over their head, which is more than some people have. I would rather be shot in the head than freeze to death, I show the same respect towards my livestock.
I missed a duck one winter afternoon and she froze to death over night. I knew she'd tried to stay warm because she'd tucked herself into the firewood. It's been years and it still bothers me. At the same time, I didn't worry about having a roof over cattle but I did offer the pigs shelter. Cattle and horses will turn to the wind and stand together to block wind and keep warmer. Hardy stock will survive in winter just as their wild counter parts do. We had Gloucestershire Old Spot pigs that loved to be out in the snow.

Quote:
Antibiotics are expensive and labor intensive. I did say it wrong earlier, but you are correct that antibiotics restore them to health. We do use water meds if something breaks in pigs, but only for a short time. Medicated feed doesnt work as well, and have not used that for some time now. Otherwise, they are all treated by hand, individually - ie labor intensive.
That's encouraging and I hope more follow in your foot steps.

Quote:
I can't talk for others, I'm not there and I'm not going to generalize like some do....but we are not alone. The so called "factory farms" are mostly owned my families and do much more for the environment than the small 100hd livestock owners.......in our area.
What kind of damage are the small owners causing? We're a little bit anal about soil and water here. My husband is CoB of Soil & Water Conservation and also serves on the state's exec committee. Our biggest problems in this area come from growers of one particular crop, not livestock. Personally, our livestock were fenced away from the stream to prevent manure from being dropped in the water and prevent soil erosion. Not all of our farming friends raising their animals on pasture are as careful. I set the bar based on what I see one set of friends doing with pork, beef, chicken, duck and turkey. If everyone were as careful and organized as these friends we'd all be better off.

Quote:
Just wanted you to know that........as always post'n w/a smile and I plan on reading what you suggested. Thank you.
Always! Which is why I enjoy our conversations. I wish we'd "met" while I worked in the ag publishing industry.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Maine
6,048 posts, read 11,410,733 times
Reputation: 5504
Maybe we should ask a mod to move our conversation to a new thread on how food is raised in the regular food forum? I feel like I'm overstepping here.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:38 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,109,908 times
Reputation: 2660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
I remember. You've said it before.


Hardy stock here doesn't die in winter without barns. I'm sure a lot of that is due to hardy breeds accustomed to Maine winters.


This might sound like an odd question but here goes. Do you breed for this? When I bred rabbits I bred for dense fur on feet. The fur protected feet from wire bottom cages. Thinly furred feet would develop sores.


I missed a duck one winter afternoon and she froze to death over night. I knew she'd tried to stay warm because she'd tucked herself into the firewood. It's been years and it still bothers me. At the same time, I didn't worry about having a roof over cattle but I did offer the pigs shelter. Cattle and horses will turn to the wind and stand together to block wind and keep warmer. Hardy stock will survive in winter just as their wild counter parts do. We had Gloucestershire Old Spot pigs that loved to be out in the snow.


That's encouraging and I hope more follow in your foot steps.


What kind of damage are the small owners causing? We're a little bit anal about soil and water here. My husband is CoB of Soil & Water Conservation and also serves on the state's exec committee. Our biggest problems in this area come from growers of one particular crop, not livestock. Personally, our livestock were fenced away from the stream to prevent manure from being dropped in the water and prevent soil erosion. Not all of our farming friends raising their animals on pasture are as careful. I set the bar based on what I see one set of friends doing with pork, beef, chicken, duck and turkey. If everyone were as careful and organized as these friends we'd all be better off.


Always! Which is why I enjoy our conversations. I wish we'd "met" while I worked in the ag publishing industry.
I didn't say that the smaller "guys" do harm, now did I? I said that the larger operations do more FOR the environment.

gotta cut this off, as I gotta go.

later MW
c
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Maine
6,048 posts, read 11,410,733 times
Reputation: 5504
Quote:
I didn't say that the smaller "guys" do harm, now did I? I said that the larger operations do more FOR the environment.
Got it! And still interested in knowing the nfo. Me and my sinus infection will be here avoiding the ragweed til the wind settles.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:07 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,109,908 times
Reputation: 2660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
Got it! And still interested in knowing the nfo. Me and my sinus infection will be here avoiding the ragweed til the wind settles.
I have some info. I listend to a guy from AZ that raises chix. His family, or "factory farms" as many call them, has "free range" and caged chix. He said they have a much higher death rate w/free range due to preditors, crushed bones, suffication, than caged.

Also on the program was the difference between crate and open pigs. Two litters/yr(each) one has 12 and one has 20 per yr. Yep, the open pigs killed 8 babies per yr. How humain is that?

I'm look'n for more info on the radio show and will let you know when I find it.

I'm not say'n go eat meat. NOT AT ALL!!! I'm just clear'n the smoke/mirrors so people understand.

Eat veggies all you want, I'm not promote'n meat.......I'm just tired of the meat industry bashing that goes on here....ie farmers.

Another point, "Factory Farms". Someone tell me how many are family owned and that hire families, please.

As always, post'n w/a smile and willing to learn.

OK, I'm ready for the bash'n.
take care and to each their own.
capt.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:26 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,124,494 times
Reputation: 18795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
Maybe we should ask a mod to move our conversation to a new thread on how food is raised in the regular food forum? I feel like I'm overstepping here.
I agree that this is probably a topic for a different thread, so if someone would like to start one, please do so.

In the meantime, let's try to keep this thread on-topic -- a discussion of our feelings towards PETA.

Thanks!
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Gary, WV & Springfield, ME
5,826 posts, read 8,638,997 times
Reputation: 17267
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord View Post
Many of their advertisements are just stupid and I can see why people make fun of them.

I gave up on wearing vegan shoes because I find it more environmentally sound to buy leather shoes that last for several years rather than toss ripped and broken cloth/hemp/rubber shoes in the trash every 6 months.

Some random comments I've gotten over the years, out of the blue:

"You know, when dinosaurs started eating meat their brains got bigger." ("You're probably right," I answered.)

"I hate you." (said when someone asked how I stay thin and I answered that I don't eat animal products)

"Yeah, eat some meat, hippie!" (said "jokingly" by my boss when I asked for feedback on a technical project we were working on - nothing at all to do with diet or eating)

"Uh oh, the PETA brigade is here!" (said by a coworker, having heard I'm vegetarian and meeting me for the first time)

"Do you want some sushi I made? It's not meat, you can eat it." (the person was actually referring to sashimi)

And many more. Yawn.

Now, with the breaking news that "eating vegetables shrinks your brain" I'm getting all kinds of BS. I'm fully aware of the importance of B-12 and that there are non-animal sources of obtaining it. Instead the media is distorting it into "vegetarians are retarded". I beg to differ.

I guess I just want to pass the word out that not all vegetarians/vegans are stinking hippies who live in a fairy land and smoke dope all day. I've been vege/vegan most of my adult life and have never smoked dope. I don't walk around in parades with signs of mutilated animals. And I certainly don't go around trying to tell people what to eat. I don't care - it's your body. Just leave me out of the stereotype.
I hear you and feel your pain. It's just as hard on a family farmer and hobby farmer when the PETA wackos start in. They tend to brainwash those who know nothing about farming so they can then go out and attack anyone with what resembles a barn.

The scary part is that there is a big pus toward self-sufficiency and that includes people raising their own meat animals. That doesn't mean they are being cruel to their livestock just because they have a hobby farm or self-sufficient lifestyle. It really wears me down. I feel your pain.

I think I am gonna start another movement: FF&H A.A.R.W.AOL, Inc or Family Farmers & Hunters Against Animal Rights Wackos and Other Lunatics, Inc.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:01 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,258,094 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceT View Post
I hear you and feel your pain. It's just as hard on a family farmer and hobby farmer when the PETA wackos start in. They tend to brainwash those who know nothing about farming so they can then go out and attack anyone with what resembles a barn.

The scary part is that there is a big pus toward self-sufficiency and that includes people raising their own meat animals. That doesn't mean they are being cruel to their livestock just because they have a hobby farm or self-sufficient lifestyle. It really wears me down. I feel your pain.

I think I am gonna start another movement: FF&H A.A.R.W.AOL, Inc or Family Farmers & Hunters Against Animal Rights Wackos and Other Lunatics, Inc.
This kind of vitriolic garbarge has already been posted in the other part of the Food Forum. Go start another thread over there, rather than on this sub-forum where people would like to concentrate on posting about food.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:03 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 4,109,908 times
Reputation: 2660
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
This kind of vitriolic garbarge has already been posted in the other part of the Food Forum. Go start another thread over there, rather than on this sub-forum where people would like to concentrate on posting about food.
Quite the opposite, SeeBee.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:15 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,892 times
Reputation: 10
yes lets thank peta for exposing slaughter houses. i think animals should feel no pain to die for meat eaters. be greatful for your next slab of steak and potatoes. though not 100% veggiterian i do consume a hamburger a good steak about 7 to 10x a year. veggies and non meat dishes are what i crave mostly. i dunno i just eat what i like i guess. so back to peta the animals should not have to live in tourment for their last few hours of life it should be a simple death not pulling out feathers of turkeys or sending the cow through the meat grinder alive or better yet being skinned alive. i watched the peta special exspoing slaughters houses. i damned near went full veggitarian. i do have more remorse for a cute little innocent animal then the slaughterers being exposed.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 11-12-2008 at 07:02 PM.. Reason: Language
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