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Location: Pittsburgh but I'm ready to relocate......
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I just ran across a column at Huffington Post!
Going through the comments of some of my recent posts, I noticed the frequently stated notion that eating meat was an essential step in human evolution. While this notion may comfort the meat industry, it's simply not true, scientifically.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
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We should really approach any publication generated by Kathy Freston with a healthy amount of skepticism. She is sort of the polar opposite of Ann Coulter and I'm sure very few people would fail to recognize that Coulter has an agenda to push.
The information within the article is not well supported and amounts to info-tainment.
For one thing, humans are most definitely more similar morphologically to carnivores and omnivores than to herbivores. I base that on three observations: teeth, intestines and stomach chemistry.
Teeth: What conclusions can you draw about an animal that has molars, bicuspids, canines and incisors, all with very thin enamel, and lacking powerful, predominant cranial musculature? You may conclude that the animal is not optimized for grazing or grinding vegetable matter. Further, as an example of a true herbivore, are there any ruminants with bicuspids and canines? No. Are there any carnivores or predominantly carnivorous omnivores with molars, bicuspids, canines and incisors? Yes. All of them.
Intestines: Contrasted against felines, as an example of a super-carnivore, humans have relatively long digestive systems. Contrasted against perrisodactyls and ruminants, as examples of true herbivores, humans have relatively short digestive systems. Contrasted against ursidae (bears) we are very similar.
Digestive chemistry: Based on stomach pH, humans do not resemble true carnivores or true herbivores. We very closely resemble creatures that are not optimized for a carnivorous diet or an omnivorous diet (like bears).
Humans are opportunistic generalists. We are designed to get by on whatever we can find, to be able to take advantage of any opportunity to feed in between meat meals.
Women who are on long term vegetarian or vegan diets can and do stop the menstrual cycle. If that is such a natural diet, why does your body go into panic mode? What about the vegan couple in the news last year who starved their baby to death trying to give the child "the right start"?
No offense to anyone here and I completely respect anyone with the discipline to live without meat in the diet, but the information in the link above is complete drivel.
... No offense to anyone here and I completely respect anyone with the discipline to live without meat in the diet, but the information in the link above is complete drivel.
Do you have sources for all your "facts"? I'm interested in your explanations but some of them seem wrong.
Quote:
Teeth: What conclusions can you draw about an animal that has molars, bicuspids, canines and incisors, all with very thin enamel, and lacking powerful, predominant cranial musculature? You may conclude that the animal is not optimized for grazing or grinding vegetable matter. Further, as an example of a true herbivore, are there any ruminants with bicuspids and canines? No. Are there any carnivores or predominantly carnivorous omnivores with molars, bicuspids, canines and incisors? Yes. All of them.
Look at this Premolar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It would appear that this dental arrangement would be good for masticating vegetable matter, and incisors would be needed for biting into a fruit. Yes there are vestigial canines but they are very reduced from carnivores' fangs. Humans evolved from earlier models. We have vestigial tail bones but no tails anymore, for example.
Quote:
Women who are on long term vegetarian or vegan diets can and do stop the menstrual cycle. If that is such a natural diet, why does your body go into panic mode? What about the vegan couple in the news last year who starved their baby to death trying to give the child "the right start"?
This sounds like an anecdotal story. Do vegans really starve their offspring to death? I've never heard of that. It would seem to be a pretty sensational story that would be widespread.
Thanks for your discussion. I'm just wondering about some of your suppositions.
Last edited by quiet walker; 06-11-2009 at 04:34 PM..
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,776,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet walker
Do you have sources for all your "facts"?
No I don't, but neither does Ms. Freston. The article draws on a compilation of bit edits and snippets from "inappropriate experts" (e.g. phd in nutritional biochemistry making assertions about human history, an M.D. making assertions about historical diets and a paleontologist "intuitively discerning" that humans are herbivores based on "introductory physiology") to piece together a definitive sounding editorial commentary. There's no science there.
Please understand, I'm really not trying to offend anyone nor condemn anyone's diet choices but if Freston wants to be the vegan/beef carbon emission/animal rights messiah she is certainly open to criticism, particularly with junk like this.
No I don't, but neither does Ms. Freston... Please understand, I'm really not trying to offend anyone nor condemn anyone's diet choices but if Freston wants to be the vegan/beef carbon emission/animal rights messiah she is certainly open to criticism, particularly with junk like this.
Sorry, I was editing/adding to my earlier post while you were writing at the same time. I am not familiar with Ms Freston. I was writing about what I had read in her page and was wondering about your "drivel" and "junk."
Women who are on long term vegetarian or vegan diets can and do stop the menstrual cycle. If that is such a natural diet, why does your body go into panic mode?
My body never went into panic mode as you call it. Proof of this theory, please? Or at least let me know where you obtained this information. BTW, my MD says "BS" to that particular "fantasy." His words, not mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy
What about the vegan couple in the news last year who starved their baby to death trying to give the child "the right start"?
Bad argument. Have you ever seen a headline where parents are called "Meat-eaters" when, as a result of their poor dietary preferences, turn a child into a fat diabetic? Or, "Meat-eating Parents refuse to take child to doctor; child dies". Why don't we see headlines like that?
Those people let their baby starve to death because they were ill-informed, not to mention frickin' idiots. If they ate meat or animal products and somehow caused their infant to die by forcing it to eat "a healthful diet of fresh meat", it would barely have made the news.
Women who are on long term vegetarian or vegan diets can and do stop the menstrual cycle. If that is such a natural diet, why does your body go into panic mode?
Really? I wish someone had told my body that because, in the 20 years I've been vegetarian, it's never once gone into "panic mode."
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,776,945 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee
My body never went into panic mode as you call it. Proof of this theory, please? Or at least let me know where you obtained this information. BTW, my MD says "BS" to that particular "fantasy." His words, not mine.
My evidence, like yours, is largely anecdotal. A family member who has strictly observed a vegan diet for over 25 years stopped having her menstrual cycle during her early 30's. Its not BS, but nor is it assured. Cross country runners and women on starvation diets will see the same interruption of the cycle. I'm sure you're aware that body fat below a certain threshold can cause amenorrhea and different women will respond differently to the complete absence of animal fats and proteins in the diet. "Didn't happen to me" isn't really a great argument either. I'm sure you wouldn't lend credence to someone who said "I smoked for 30 years and never got cancer. It's BS."
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee
Bad argument. Have you ever seen a headline where parents are called "Meat-eaters" when, as a result of their poor dietary preferences, turn a child into a fat diabetic? Or, "Meat-eating Parents refuse to take child to doctor; child dies". Why don't we see headlines like that?
I concede that the baby died of parental stupidity (or worse) and I have no idea whether or not this is rhetoric manifested for legal defense. However, I'm certainly not defending the modern unnatural diet by disagreeing that humans are naturally herbivorous. A diet largely consisting of pepsi foods products, wonder bread, and spray cheese is, to me anyway, considerably less natural than a vegan diet. You should be just as on the hook for making your child fat if you are not conscious of proper nutrition. The rub is that "meat-eating" does not equate to unnatural or unhealthy.
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