U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Vegetarian and Vegan Food
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-21-2009, 10:34 AM
 
259 posts, read 653,433 times
Reputation: 190

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
EVERY meal? If so, then you (and your friends) should explore some other options.
nope. no where did i say every meal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
And your "real world" experience is no more true than MY "real world" experience (and that of MY friends), which DOESN'T include "fake meat" on a regular basis. <*shrug*>
again, you're putting words in my mouth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-21-2009, 10:37 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 14,115,713 times
Reputation: 18795
Whether "fake meat" is a regular component of a vegetarian meal or not actually isn't even germane to this topic, which is the purported evils of tofu. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but most soy-based "fake meat" isn't even made from tofu.

So let's stay on the topic of how bad tofu is, even though (as I keep saying), it's not a mainstay of most vegetarian diets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,305,356 times
Reputation: 12913
Quote:
Originally Posted by mi~mi View Post

I wouldn't take any article seriously that is rife with misspellings and grammar errors, and contains virtually no scientific basis.

Eating too much of anything - even something like broccoli - probably isn't great for you. Humans are omnivores - we didn't evolve to eat lots and lots of one food source only (as in only tofu, only beef, only cheese, etc)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 04:27 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 12,718,813 times
Reputation: 6982
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
I believe that eating tofu causes less health problems than eating meat or dairy
I agree, especially considering the antibiotics and hormones rampant in the meat and dairy industry.

I've been vegetarian for over 20 years now. I use ~1/8-1/4 of a cup of organic, unsweetened soy milk in my coffee every morning. I should probably be ~more~ concerned with my caffeine consumption?

I ocassionally "splurge" on edamame. Seriously, I can eat 1/2 a pound at a sitting! I don't think it's any more unhealthy than the person who eats a quarter-pounder or a big steak.

I use tofu (organic, usually extra firm) or tempeh in cooked recipes a few times per month. We get most of our protein from beans, legumes , nuts and seeds.

We consume very few processed food products.

I agree with what the others said about moderation in all things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2009, 09:34 PM
 
10,630 posts, read 23,362,441 times
Reputation: 6702
I rarely, if ever, eat "fake meat." Why bother? There are shelves and shelves of it at my local (Asian) grocery store, though; fake intestines, fake mutton, fake abalone, etc. I highly doubt all, or even most, of the people buying it are vegetarian. The same store (which was taking a delivery of whole pigs last time I walked by) has quite a large meat and fish section, so I know there are plenty of non-vegetarian customers shopping the fake meat section as well as the extensive tofu aisle as well as the meat/fish counters. I don't like tofu all that much myself, so like plaidmom, most of our protein comes from beans, legumes, and nuts. We eat dairy, too, so I also get some from there.

It's one of my pet peeves, actually, when non-vegetarians assume that all of my meals involve fake meat and/or tofu. I'm not concerned about tofu, and think I should probably eat it a bit more than I do. Variety and moderation seems the way to go. I suppose if one ate tofu at every meal there could be problems, but then, too, you'd also run into problems if you ate pork at every meal or any number of other foods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 12:32 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,515,365 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriekate View Post

PS, if you're a vegetarian, there isn't a lot of fake meat/protein out there that isn't soy-based. Thankfully I've found Quorn (which is mushroom based) but besides Quorn, most everything else has soy as one of the main ingredients.
The other kind of "fake meat" is made of wheat gluten. It's also a long standing Asian product. I've seen companies that make sausages and such this way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 12:50 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,515,365 times
Reputation: 869
Just so you know, Mercola and Weston Price have various anti-vegetarian articles on their site, so that's another reason not to take them too seriously, they are clearly biased. Also note that they mention the study about tofu and brain aging, but don't mention the other data from the study (they examined over a dozen health aspects in the study). The other data included a rate of Parkinson's disease that was 2x for regular milk consumers.
Consumption of milk and calcium in midlife and the future risk of Parkinson disease -- Park et al. 64 (6): 1047 -- Neurology

They accept one part of the study that meets their views, but don't mention one of the other parts which contradict what they are promoting. That too shows bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
There's also this BBC article, which states that there may be an increased risk of dementia due to tofu consumption. The study cited was conducted on elderly individuals who ate tofu on a daily basis. (Midway through the article, one of the researchers states: that there was no suggestion that eating tofu in moderation posed a problem.)
I got around to reading some of this, but the whole journal article mentioned in the BBC article is not available to read. Here are lots of links to think about:

This contains the abstract of the BBC mentioned article:
High Tofu Intake Is Associated with Worse Memory in Elderly Indonesian Men and Women

This is the main article that people refer to concerning the tofu and dementia issue, the Honolulu-Asia Aging Study:
Brain Aging and Midlife Tofu Consumption -- White et al. 19 (2): 242 -- Journal of the American College of Nutrition

Which has an associated editorial that brings up many of the questions I had when I read the article:
Tofu and Cognitive Function: Food for Thought -- Grodstein et al. 19 (2): 207 -- Journal of the American College of Nutrition

Below quote is from the above "Honolulu-Asia Aging Study" article:

"If Midlife Tofu Consumption Leads to an Exaggeration of Brain Aging in Late Life, Why are Rates of Cognitive Impairment not Higher in Japan and Other Asian Nations where Soyfoods are a Staple?
Our findings are counter-intuitive, given the great life expectancy of the Japanese, reports suggesting lower rates of Alzheimer’s disease (but higher rates of vascular dementia) in Japanese elderly [1,3], and the well-established belief that tofu is a health promoting food. While no definitive explanation is possible, possibilities include (1) our findings are spurious or are peculiar to this population or (2) the widespread consumption of tofu in Japan and other Asian nations has contributed to the total burden of aging-related cognitive decline in that population, but its impact is relatively modest, compared with the influences of age, education, cerebrovascular disease and possibly other factors."

This also aligns with the finding of others:
"The prevalence of EOD in Japan appeared to be similar to that in Western countries with the notable exception that vascular dementia was the most frequent cause of EOD in Japan."

as in this article:
Prevalence and Causes of Early-Onset Dementia in Japan: A Population-Based Study -- Ikejima et al. 40 (8): 2709 -- Stroke

In fact, the Japanese results appeared to have the same level of dementia as Western countries, so conversely, Western diets/culture without tofu/whole soy products were no better than the Japanese levels of dementia.

It is noteworthy, that Alzheimer's is the more common form of dementia for Western countries, but as mentioned, vascular dementia (low/restricted blood flow to brain) was more prevalent for Japanese. The reason it's noteworthy is that vascular dementia is more understood than Alzheimer's so potential prevention and observation is possible.

None of the data provides causality in the case of tofu and dementia, but considering that vascular dementia is more prevalent, it is more likely that soy could affect the vascular system which then leads to vascular dementia, as opposed to directly affecting the brain itself (as in Alzheimer's).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 12:57 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,515,365 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
Whether "fake meat" is a regular component of a vegetarian meal or not actually isn't even germane to this topic, which is the purported evils of tofu. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but most soy-based "fake meat" isn't even made from tofu.
Most "fake meat" is now made from isolated soy protein. I guess it's more akin to grabbing those containers of "soy protein" from the bodybuilding store and making them into some food item. Definitely not what people were doing in the past when the kitchens only had stones and fires for making food.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 01:05 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,515,365 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie3 View Post
I wouldn't take any article seriously that is rife with misspellings and grammar errors, and contains virtually no scientific basis.
That was the post I slammed when I saw it. It didn't even appear as being credible. If someone wants to make a point, they should at least attempt to appear credible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 01:59 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,252,036 times
Reputation: 4237
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
It's one of my pet peeves, actually, when non-vegetarians assume that all of my meals involve fake meat and/or tofu.

Variety and moderation seems the way to go. I suppose if one ate tofu at every meal there could be problems, but then, too, you'd also run into problems if you ate pork at every meal or any number of other foods.
Thanks, uptown. Sounds sensible to me. Don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand this ~~~
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink > Vegetarian and Vegan Food
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top