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Seattle is an expensive city to live.
They call it San Fran JR for many reasons.
And drugs, gangs and Crime fill the streets of
Tacoma and have moved into areas like Renton,
Tukwilla, etc. Aurora ave was known as the place for
Drugs and prostitutes.
The east side got populated by microsoft millionaires.
Yes, the economic situation is better, but it's an expensive place to live.
Portland is wonderful but there are drugs, gangs and crime there too.
Like i said if you have an agenda, you'll find what you want and think what you want.
Nobody these days leaves California for Seattle to save money.
Yes, California is overpriced. But again, you people act like crime doesn't exist anywhere else but California.
It's easy to make up assumptions when nobody really knows what's going on elsewhere.
The problem is that I've lived elsewere. I grew up elsewhere.
Problems and crime exist everywhere. Some worse than others.
Again, if you find VC unliveable, than find a place you like. Find
Some gated community. Thousand Oaks probably would suit you.
you cannot compare the two largest cities (portland and seattle) to all of California.
Simply, Washington and Oregon do not have the problems California has. Compared to North Dakota or Iowa, they do, but nowhere near the gangs, thugs, and crime. It's too cold for them.
There are isolated areas. You are not the only person on this forum who has been around. Trying to color other's perceptions is not working.
As for LadyKLO I imagine part of it is that you have gotten used to it and probably part of it is that it might be nicer than where you came from (St. Louis). Also, as a homeowner you probably have a little more control...you may not have experienced people using your pool and terrorizing you in your own space.
However, I would move to St. Louis, knowing where to live to avoid the bad parts.
That was what bugged me about Ventura, it seems you really can't escape any outside element, it's too small and for whatever reason city government either hasn't figured out how to crack down on crime/gangs or has gotten used to it too.
Bums are everywhere. But it would be nice if they had some laws in the park so that normal people would feel safe just taking a nice stroll in the park or having a picnic. I'm pretty sure I actually saw someone light up a joint in the park.
Of course I was there Wednesday afternoon when all the working people were probably at work.
Still, it's not really a typical scene in every US city, especially one with such a small downtown.
Google "Seattle Sucks", "Portland Sucks" and "Los Angeles Sucks"
A kernel of truth in each.
There is a material segment of California's population that perenially complains with the same litany about the state (taxes, budgetary issues, illegal aliens, cost of living, traffic, smog, etc etc etc).
Some leave, many come back.
California is larger than the combined population of Minnesota, Colorado, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisana, Kentucky, and Oregon... as a state, we're bound to have a good number of folks that simply don't like it here. We've flirted with the idea leaving for greener pastures, but ultimately couldn't pull the trigger.
As far as Nisini's indictment on Ventura, it's a familiar refrain I hear in nearly every city from one group or another - it's "not as great as it used to be" and "it's going downhill."
So on one hand, it's terrible and on the other the cost of housing is too high. Seems to me that if it were that bad, the demand for housing would move rental prices downward.
Alas, that renders Nisini's opinion in the minority, and ultimately you have to decide if it's right for you.
That's part of what I don't understand. But from what I've read, that hasn't happened because so many people have lost their homes, landlords have been able to raise the rent due to the demand and shortage of rentals. Nice huh?
Possibly, but that's a problem everywhere. And folks can certainly just move out as Nisini is choosing to do.
It might also be that... it's not as bad as you perceive it to be. All the objective data point to that conclusion, including crime statistics being lower than average plus rental prices indicating strong demand.
We can raise anecdotes that support or refute our perceptions all day long. In the end, the data has to be there to support a position. As an urban planner, you know this to be true.
I'd also add there are a lot more people that feel like Nisini but are afraid to post. they don't want to get bashed, argue, etc.
I get the feeling it's not much different than the Californian's who leave or keep to themselves because they are too afraid to make any waves.
I've never seen/heard anything like what I did there. Me complaining to the management who was too afraid to deal with loud and scary patrons. Reading the same store in reviews of apartment complexes tells me this is indeed an issue in the area, people are afraid to stand up for their own rights because they have been pummeled by fear of these goobers.
OR they don't mind rude, obnoxious, threatening, fighting thugs.
Or, you live in a nice neighborhood and have someone managed to completley miss this huge contingent in your backyard.
I'm not saying you should not live there, but I passionatley hope communities come together to save California. Because it makes me really sad.
I've never seen/heard anything like what I did there. Me complaining to the management who was too afraid to deal with loud and scary patrons. Reading the same store in reviews of apartment complexes tells me this is indeed an issue in the area, people are afraid to stand up for their own rights because they have been pummeled by fear of these goobers.
You stayed in a La Quinta Inn in Montalvo off the side of the freeway, had a bad experience on one night and... suddenly the entire town is suspect! Oh, and there are some reviews of some apartment complexes that back this up!
Anecdotes, all of it. You paint a picture of this area as a community held in captivity living in constant fear of "thugs". Is there crime? Yes. Is it less than other towns of a similar size? Yes.
But the most bitching you'll hear from the citizens of Ventura generally relates to the installation of parking meters, traffic or the closure of a library.
We are not waiting for the Seven Samurai to come save us.
ps Folks aren't generally afraid to speak their mind on this forum.
And please. I'm an educated person, I spent a lot of time driving the streets there. I did not base my judgement on "one night at the LaQunita" but I'm getting really sick of defending my perception.
I'm more annoyed that people are just happy to leave thigns the way they are. Yes, the apartment reviews are extremely useful. I've moved about 10 times in as many years, I know what I'm doing and I'm about done with this conversation because I can see you all are very emotionally attached to your area and not willing to see the dust.
When giving advice to people on areas I've lived I gave them the truth, not just the rose colored part. The trust doesn't neccessarily disuade people from moving, but it does help them make better decisions.
I hope you all have a chance to visit some places outside of CA (or even down the street, say Laguna Beach like I did a couple of weeks ago...speaking of CA beach towns that don't seem to have this problem) and you can still keep saying "It's like that everywhere" it's not.
ngb,
Thanks for the info. There are a lot of things to consider but hearing from many sources really helps.
Carpinteria is ok. It's a very quiet area. It's closer to Santa Barbara which is higher class for sure but a little snobby.
Pedro and Opensky, I do understand that there are some people that are comfortable here, but I know that I am not in a very small minority. I know there are people who disagree with me, but I know a lot of people who share this opinion too and I have had too many bad experiences in my 30+ years around here, noticing that the past few years have tremendously become worse. Most people I know that are very happy here have a good money cushion or at least family that helps them out or have been given a home or assisted with one. Money also helps with theft prevention and recovery. Don't get upset - I'm not saying all happy people here have that, just most I've encountered. These are all just my opinions and I'm am not pretending to represent everyone elses opinions on the area too. Our experiences here have been marred by a lot of theft, vandalism, attempted assaults, scams, etc. And, yes, I know everywhere is getting overcrowded but it's just another thing that is getting out of hand here. In addition, I know a lot of areas now also have people begging for money at every parking lot exit, as it is here. Other areas even have people who are begging for money actually chase you down, threatening and demanding money if you have a nice purse, as what happened to a friend of mine at the Target parking lot at the mall.
LadyKLO, I have experienced too many thugs walking around my neighborhood at night, the same ones that are breaking into the cars and homes at night. You will also notice in the news that there have been a lot of burglary reports all over town but I know of a lot that don't make it to the news here in the East part of town (and I'm not including Saticoy in that). My young adult son has been walking through a nice midtown neighborhood by the college and got chased by a group of 3 thugs looking to mug him. He also knows a lot of other kids that has happened to, some of which make it to the paper but some don't. The police are truly afraid to do something about it and when you call them about it they practically laugh at you because they didn't see it happen. There is a meth user up the street (staying in a home owned by his parents) and he randomly threatened us with violence because his dog escaped and came to our house and we were trying to return it to him so we called the police and they came out and laughed, saying that the guy is probably going to say the same thing about us and they left.
I know there are some people who feel safe, but they probably have not had the experiences we and many others have had. Once it happens to you a few times, you learn to really watch your surroundings. I know there is crime everywhere, but I have lived other places and know that it doesn't have to be this way.
And the East Ventura Fire Station debacle? Just another City Council political stunt at the expense of our safety. I do not trust our incumbent city leaders at all!
So, please, just take my description of my experiences as just that - MY experiences. I am just sharing them for the purpose of giving ngb here a complete, well-rounded picture instead of just one side of life here. I know there are some good things too, and Opensky has covered a lot of that. And once again, please don't be offended.
My wife lived in Laguna Beach for a time. I know the area very well.
We've moved nearly 10 times also in as many years, with the recent move in the past few months -- and for us, it was with two kids - quite a bit more complex. I can assure you we wanted to make this one the last one as well.
$1500 a month in Laguna will feel much like $1000 does here in Ventura, only you'll be quite a bit further from the water. The homeless problem is a bit more pronounced there, the traffic makes it quite untenable to get in/out - especially in the summer months, and especially during the Pageant. Laguna gets all types that funnel in as the town is built on tourism. Those visiting contribute to the crime in town. Here's some data that backs that up; not just random anecdotes. The issues are much more seasonal there than other beach towns.
rgb, I just saw the comments that came in while I was typing my last one. I'm sure you DID see someone lighting up a joint at a park. Everywhere you go at parks and beaches and especially the beautiful Surfers Point where my kids surf, there is non-stop, public pot-smoking! It's incredibly sickening! You can even smell it walking through neighborhoods - even good neighborhoods! It's like people think it's legal here. But that may be a problem everywhere too, I don't know. Maybe I'm just expecting Mayberry or something like that...... But I am certain there are places that are cleaner than here. (again, sorry)
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