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Old 06-17-2010, 09:01 AM
 
111 posts, read 150,380 times
Reputation: 92

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According to a recent analysis Vermont has the highest percentage of non-poor people signed up for income-redistribution programs.

With Vermont Earning the Dubious Distinction of First Place, Northeastern States Dominate the Moocher Index International Liberty


 
Old 06-17-2010, 08:33 PM
 
17 posts, read 30,316 times
Reputation: 21
Don't know if we would have qualified as our income was above VT's average, but if we had taken state handouts we probably wouldn't have lost the house. Makes sense. Know a lot of folks making less, with similar expenses, that seem to get by. One friend used to talk about getting state aid, all sorts of crazy stuff, and it would get all quiet when they started talking-guess they weren't the only ones.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 08:35 AM
 
111 posts, read 150,380 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTgoneaway View Post
Don't know if we would have qualified as our income was above VT's average, but if we had taken state handouts we probably wouldn't have lost the house. Makes sense. Know a lot of folks making less, with similar expenses, that seem to get by. One friend used to talk about getting state aid, all sorts of crazy stuff, and it would get all quiet when they started talking-guess they weren't the only ones.
So what your saying is that people aren't much interested in talking about the Moocher Index because the way things are set up in Vermont, the majority falls on the moocher side?
 
Old 06-18-2010, 09:03 AM
 
17 posts, read 30,316 times
Reputation: 21
Yes.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 01:20 PM
 
111 posts, read 150,380 times
Reputation: 92
Well, I guess it is shameful. I suppose this is why they make it so using food stamps looks from a distance like your paying with a CC. Nobody in line behind is any the wiser about who really paid for those ring dings... except of course the people who really are paying for them.
 
Old 06-18-2010, 02:49 PM
 
6,764 posts, read 13,981,309 times
Reputation: 4476
I've never been on welfare or any state aid in my life apart from a very small window when my son was a baby and my husband lost his job and we went on Childhealth Plus (in NY, like Dr. Dinosaur).

When we moved to VT, neither of us had jobs but we had a good (not great) amount of $$$. My husband got a job in 2 weeks (temp) and a decent job within 4 weeks.

Prior to this, we did go on "VT" medical (all we qualified for). But we never used it. My husband's job enabled us to get very good medical, though the state helped supplement it a little all these years. Monthly we got a small check to help us out.

Dr. Dinosaur is available to ALL kids unless you make over something like 4,000 dollars a month (not sure of the exact amount). There is no shame in getting help for your kids. People should use this service.

Social Services was very nice on our interview in 2008. Not like something I would imagine in a bigger state. The lady who interviewed us was pleasant and was also surprised how much we paid for our apartment. She remarked she could NEVER afford such a place and that she lived in a trailer out in the country somewhere with her husband and child...(and she was hugely pregnant).

Now, the moocher thing...I suppose if people HID their income they could get food stamps, heat supplement and more. I believe you can only have $3,000 in the bank to get f/stamps but I don't know.

I hope people who need help get it. As far as mooching, I don't know...

This is a very small state so do they factor this in with the stats? Comparing the population of VT to NY and coming out with # whatever seems a bit skewed.

The only shameful thing is the lack of jobs here and the way people tell you to 'settle' for anything. Meanwhile THEY are probably either well off (yet hiding their $$) or on numerous programs.
 
Old 06-20-2010, 08:16 AM
 
171 posts, read 247,936 times
Reputation: 101
Am I the only one laughing at how the graphic rather resembles the shape of VT? :-)

I have no issue with people using services they truly need in order to get a hand UP, and not simply a handout. If I truly need them, I would apply, especially for my child, however I would also be working as hard as possible to change my situation, so I'd be able to give back to the programs that helped me when I needed them. (I understand it's often very complex, and not as easy as "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps". Just wording as such for simplicity.)
 
Old 06-20-2010, 08:16 AM
 
2,143 posts, read 5,292,062 times
Reputation: 1075
This doesn't really clarify much. Is the current use program part of the formula? What about other property tax breaks? Does that add in? Federal agricultural subsidies? The most agrarian states would have a lot of that. Nevada would have very little.
 
Old 06-20-2010, 09:29 AM
 
400 posts, read 424,161 times
Reputation: 461
Pretty much everyone gets the income prebate on their property taxes. It doesn't even start to phase out until 90K/yr or so, and goes up to 110K/yr. (Those numbers are probably out of date now) And if you're wealthy, but lack a high income its pretty easy to get rebate on your property taxes. Or if you're a couple had one high income member you could just not get married and leave the property in the poor ones name and get a fat rebate while the rich one paid to have horse farms and additions installed. In fact, I think you'll also pay less income taxes that way...since Vermont seems to have an income tax penalty for being married if these brackets are correct:

Vermont state taxes

Its a pretty bizarre system. And despite my best efforts, I actually still don't really understand how the hell my property taxes are calculated. I'd prefer they just raised the income tax and did away with the school property tax entirely. I'm afraid to say that though, since they'd probably just do the first part and forget the last. That would get around some of the system cheats (can't really call them cheats actually, they're just playing the game better).

It's not really a wonder why people vote yes on the all the budgets...if you don't make much money some one else pays for it anyway. So its basically funded by an income tax anyway, they just made it more complicated and confusing.
 
Old 06-20-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
167 posts, read 217,273 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaw1972 View Post
Am I the only one laughing at how the graphic rather resembles the shape of VT? :-)

I have no issue with people using services they truly need in order to get a hand UP, and not simply a handout. If I truly need them, I would apply, especially for my child, however I would also be working as hard as possible to change my situation, so I'd be able to give back to the programs that helped me when I needed them. (I understand it's often very complex, and not as easy as "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps". Just wording as such for simplicity.)


Yeah I thought it was a map of VT at first.
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