[VTgoneaway]

Doesn't matter much how liberal the NEK is, not enough people to make a difference. Life in the NEK is still subject to the Queen's rule from Montpelier. Yeah I know less enforcers and less people to call the enforcers but you are still subject to VT's rules even if you are never caught breaking them. No thanks the NEK is the worst of all worlds.

[ds12]

Seems like people are getting off topic, so I'll try to get this thread back on the tracks here...

I currently live in the NEK and have been for the last 5 1/2 years, since moving up from Connecticut, for - if you can believe it - work. I've lived in St Johnsbury, Lyndonville, and currently, East Burke. Each town I would say has been better than the last.

To give you a general idea of the area, it's beautiful, isolating, freeing, frustrating and absolutely perfect - all in a week. Many days are cloudy and rainy in the summer, and bone-chillingly cold and (once again) cloudy in the winter. But when it is right on, there is no place more lovely than the NEK. Take, for instance, watching the sunset over Willoughby Gap last evening from Darling Hill Rd in E Burke. That was after stopping by a local farm for a walk and to take my 2 year old daughter to pet the horses and cows. Tough to beat.

Since you grew up in S Vermont, I'm sure you have a decent idea of the area - very rural, almost no jobs - so I don't think I need to get into the details of all that. This I will say though: the real estate does not match the income here, more so its seems than other areas of Vermont. You truly have 'live without' if you want to stay above water, or if you're lucky, gather a savings. Being self-employed as you are will be an advantage.

As for the towns, St Johnsbury is the largest in my area. It's an odd mix, and not the first place I'd want to live. The elementary and middle schools are dreadful, although St J Academy (High School) is acclaimed. There seems to be a lack of commitment of the residents and the town has it's issues with drugs. Nighttime entertainment is scarce.

About 10 miles north of St J is Lyndonville, where you have Lyndon State College, which adds a bit of a younger crowd to the town. There is a brewery in town, Trout River Brewery, which has halfway decent beer and is open for pizza on Friday and Saturday. There are a couple of restaurants in town, one of which typically has live music (jazz, acoustic) on Wednesday evenings from about 7 - 9, which is very nice. Lyndonville is a nice town - I lived downtown near Bandstand Park for a few years. They have a farmer's market there every Friday night (there's one in St J on Sundays too. or Saturday, I can't remember which)

East Burke is a great area. It's a small town, but has a lot going on for it's size. There is Burke Mountain ski resort, which is a nice smaller mountain and generally has no lift lines. There are the Kingdom Trails if you like to mountain bike, which has over 100 miles of trails on Burke Mountian and Darling Hill. Rivers, lakes (Willoughby is close, as many others too), the VAST snowmobiling trails, and hundreds of woods for hunting, hiking and general romping around. The people are friendly and the town has a good amount of activity for it's size (although I will say that the weekends are a bit nuts in the summer with all the mountain biker tourists coming for the trails). Burke Mountain usually has some live music on the weekends, and there are a few restaurants in town. Not to mention, Lyndonville is only 10 minutes down the road.

I'm not too familiar with Hardwick, although it doesn't have the best reputation. There is a small downtown with a couple restaurants. Same goes for Barton. Not saying they are bad towns, I just don't know too much about them other than what I've heard through the grapevine. For what it's worth, a friend grew up in Hardwick and she didn't want to live there because her daughter is 4 and getting close to going to school.

Schools are small in the Burke/Lyndonville area and in general nothing to worry too much about, except for St J schools. I would avoid those. Another friend's daughter just started at the Burke Town School and they have been very impressed with the teacher so far. Lyndonville schools have a decent reputation, and a very good high school too - Lyndon Institute. Some of the smaller towns have chartered school choice for high school.

Rentals in the area are tight, especially the more you travel away from St J, or to a lesser extent, Lyndonville. We rent a house now, and never filled out a credit check or payed a security deposit. People are generally trusting and friendly if you act in kind. A good person to contact for rentals in the Burke/Lyndonville area is Adrea Kupetz of Burke Mill Properties. She is helpful, very nice, and generally has her 'ears to the tracks' around here. They have a website.

As far as the people, well, if you act like a 'flatlander', you'll be treated like one. You'll probably find out pretty quick what that entails. The NEK is a generally insular place, which can be tedious at times, but not so much that you can't make friends. My townie friends up here poke fun at me for being a flatlander, but then again I give it right back to them making fun of Vermonters. If you live slow and easy and not try to mess up the life here, you be accepted as an NEK'er. If you rock the boat, you'll have a very tough time settling in.

As for the self-employment thing, I wouldn't think that would offend anybody. If you have a job and you're not relying on the state, you are one-up on many a person around here, and people appreciate the self-reliance in itself. In other words, if you're earning a living you'll be earning the respect that comes along with it.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions, ask 'em and I'll try to get you answers. Good luck to you.

[Logs and Dogs]

Your area references and mine are identical. Although, on the summer weekends I’ll be fighting the “tourists” from the north on the trails as well……..

And I’ll be in the woods from September through March…………

Bottom line about he NEK is that if you act like a know it all arsehole, you will be treated as such. If you work hard, don’t ***** about the weather and the cold and just get things done, pretty soon people realize you are more like them than a typical flatlander.

[swanstone1]

Originally Posted by ds12

Seems like people are getting off topic, so I'll try to get this thread back on the tracks here...

I currently live in the NEK and have been for the last 5 1/2 years, since moving up from Connecticut, for - if you can believe it - work. I've lived in St Johnsbury, Lyndonville, and currently, East Burke. Each town I would say has been better than the last.

To give you a general idea of the area, it's beautiful, isolating, freeing, frustrating and absolutely perfect - all in a week. Many days are cloudy and rainy in the summer, and bone-chillingly cold and (once again) cloudy in the winter. But when it is right on, there is no place more lovely than the NEK. Take, for instance, watching the sunset over Willoughby Gap last evening from Darling Hill Rd in E Burke. That was after stopping by a local farm for a walk and to take my 2 year old daughter to pet the horses and cows. Tough to beat.

Since you grew up in S Vermont, I'm sure you have a decent idea of the area - very rural, almost no jobs - so I don't think I need to get into the details of all that. This I will say though: the real estate does not match the income here, more so its seems than other areas of Vermont. You truly have 'live without' if you want to stay above water, or if you're lucky, gather a savings. Being self-employed as you are will be an advantage.

As for the towns, St Johnsbury is the largest in my area. It's an odd mix, and not the first place I'd want to live. The elementary and middle schools are dreadful, although St J Academy (High School) is acclaimed. There seems to be a lack of commitment of the residents and the town has it's issues with drugs. Nighttime entertainment is scarce.

About 10 miles north of St J is Lyndonville, where you have Lyndon State College, which adds a bit of a younger crowd to the town. There is a brewery in town, Trout River Brewery, which has halfway decent beer and is open for pizza on Friday and Saturday. There are a couple of restaurants in town, one of which typically has live music (jazz, acoustic) on Wednesday evenings from about 7 - 9, which is very nice. Lyndonville is a nice town - I lived downtown near Bandstand Park for a few years. They have a farmer's market there every Friday night (there's one in St J on Sundays too. or Saturday, I can't remember which)

East Burke is a great area. It's a small town, but has a lot going on for it's size. There is Burke Mountain ski resort, which is a nice smaller mountain and generally has no lift lines. There are the Kingdom Trails if you like to mountain bike, which has over 100 miles of trails on Burke Mountian and Darling Hill. Rivers, lakes (Willoughby is close, as many others too), the VAST snowmobiling trails, and hundreds of woods for hunting, hiking and general romping around. The people are friendly and the town has a good amount of activity for it's size (although I will say that the weekends are a bit nuts in the summer with all the mountain biker tourists coming for the trails). Burke Mountain usually has some live music on the weekends, and there are a few restaurants in town. Not to mention, Lyndonville is only 10 minutes down the road.

I'm not too familiar with Hardwick, although it doesn't have the best reputation. There is a small downtown with a couple restaurants. Same goes for Barton. Not saying they are bad towns, I just don't know too much about them other than what I've heard through the grapevine. For what it's worth, a friend grew up in Hardwick and she didn't want to live there because her daughter is 4 and getting close to going to school.

Schools are small in the Burke/Lyndonville area and in general nothing to worry too much about, except for St J schools. I would avoid those. Another friend's daughter just started at the Burke Town School and they have been very impressed with the teacher so far. Lyndonville schools have a decent reputation, and a very good high school too - Lyndon Institute. Some of the smaller towns have chartered school choice for high school.

Rentals in the area are tight, especially the more you travel away from St J, or to a lesser extent, Lyndonville. We rent a house now, and never filled out a credit check or payed a security deposit. People are generally trusting and friendly if you act in kind. A good person to contact for rentals in the Burke/Lyndonville area is Adrea Kupetz of Burke Mill Properties. She is helpful, very nice, and generally has her 'ears to the tracks' around here. They have a website.

As far as the people, well, if you act like a 'flatlander', you'll be treated like one. You'll probably find out pretty quick what that entails. The NEK is a generally insular place, which can be tedious at times, but not so much that you can't make friends. My townie friends up here poke fun at me for being a flatlander, but then again I give it right back to them making fun of Vermonters. If you live slow and easy and not try to mess up the life here, you be accepted as an NEK'er. If you rock the boat, you'll have a very tough time settling in.

As for the self-employment thing, I wouldn't think that would offend anybody. If you have a job and you're not relying on the state, you are one-up on many a person around here, and people appreciate the self-reliance in itself. In other words, if you're earning a living you'll be earning the respect that comes along with it.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions, ask 'em and I'll try to get you answers. Good luck to you.

I much appreciated your reply to the original question and found it pretty realistic from a newcomers perspective. Ok, I've only been here 6 1/2 years, but recently went to the P.Chopper in St J ( I used to drive from Littleton weekly) and have noticed it and all of St J seem dirty to me. Definitely won't go back to that grocery. Does Newport put a bit more into cleanliness because it's a first stop from Canada? It's just a cleaner feel.

Hardwick I do not care for one iota as it seem a bit "icky" to me. I however moved to Barton despite what I'd heard because I feel it's a sleeper town-tremendous potential. We have more and more transplants coming in and the ick factor has definitely gone down tremendously. Yep, it was here too when I originally bought. However, I gut/rebuild houses and have been busier each year and it's not working for the locals. Money is moving in so I guess others see the potential too. I guess a full walking town with the 2nd cleanest lake is a draw plus property is still relatively "cheap". All it takes is outsiders to discover what locals shun and it becomes the next hot spot. (my opinion and I've seen it dozens of times over the decades....haven't been wrong on an investment yet............knock on wood)

[kaw1972]

Originally Posted by Logs and Dogs

What he said above.........

Oh and if you are a big fan of the Burlington, Rutland, Middlebury area (we aren't), I would keep that to yourself for a while. As one guy stated, "Oh, Burlington is beautiful, when your done visiting make sure you come back to Vermont."

Steve

That's perfect! I don't really care about any of those towns. I'm really laidback, and at a time in life after a rough couple of years of a failing marriage when I just want peace & quiet. As for accommodations, I feel the same. I'm not high maintenance. My son's father and I rented out his former condo for awhile, so I know what it's like on the other side. I'd call if there was a real problem,but not to make weird demands about cosmetics, or to yank someone else around. I don't have the energy.

I've considered homeschooling, since my son was pretty bored in Kindergarten this year. (He's an active kid & a fluent reader who hated the tons of repetitive worksheets, 15 minute "recess", being stuck inside on days deemed "too cold" for the class to go outdoors. Not sure how much that differs?) However ,I think as a self-employed, newly single parent--unless my mom also joins us--that full-time homeschooling might be a bit more of a challenge than I'm ready for right now. It is an option for the future though. He's pretty outgoing though, so I think socially he'd probably be happier at first anyway with classmates.

As for being exposed to a lot of things, my son would still be making the trek to Boston to visit other family members, so he'd get a mix of both urban & rural. He loves being outside, loves to grow things and hunt for worms, snails, leave out food for birds. I absolutely hate that getting him outside just to play is a big effort here. It's SO different than the way I was raised. I loved being a little kid on a farm in VT. (I don't really care for the Rockingham/Bellows Falls area where we lived after my dad died and the cows were sold though.)

The boredom & lack of opportunity a poster above mentioned didn't hit for me until I was a teen. I've traveled a lot with my son--he's been on a couple of extended cross-country roadtrips, and plenty of shorter hauls--and would likely continue to do so as he gets older. My parents were farmers and really never left the state. I literally didn't see an ocean until I was 18 and moved away from home. LOL!

My father was a typical Vermont dairy farmer with a big heart, AND all kinds of strong opinions. Lots of these opinions were about flatlanders, so I KNOW there really is some judgment/potential tension, even if it's mostly joking. I remember going to check on cows, and suddenly there would be a bunch of random people zipping through our fields on cross-country skis. Or better yet, wandering around our woods in hunting season stopping to ask if they could "stop and paint a picture of that field". Um, okay......

As for a business stepping on anyone's toes, I have a couple of micro-businesses. I sell photography (license images & prints) and dabble in jewelry design and other crafts. I have done some portrait work, although nothing serious. My primary income is from selling used books and other media items online. I know there are a few small bookstores in the area, but I don't envision opening a storefront and directly competing with anyone.

Ok....going to catch up a bit more with the rest of this thread now. Thanks to everyone who replied!

[kaw1972]

Originally Posted by ds12

Seems like people are getting off topic, so I'll try to get this thread back on the tracks here...

I currently live in the NEK and have been for the last 5 1/2 years, since moving up from Connecticut, for - if you can believe it - work. I've lived in St Johnsbury, Lyndonville, and currently, East Burke. Each town I would say has been better than the last.

To give you a general idea of the area, it's beautiful, isolating, freeing, frustrating and absolutely perfect - all in a week. Many days are cloudy and rainy in the summer, and bone-chillingly cold and (once again) cloudy in the winter. But when it is right on, there is no place more lovely than the NEK. Take, for instance, watching the sunset over Willoughby Gap last evening from Darling Hill Rd in E Burke. That was after stopping by a local farm for a walk and to take my 2 year old daughter to pet the horses and cows. Tough to beat.

Since you grew up in S Vermont, I'm sure you have a decent idea of the area - very rural, almost no jobs - so I don't think I need to get into the details of all that. This I will say though: the real estate does not match the income here, more so its seems than other areas of Vermont. You truly have 'live without' if you want to stay above water, or if you're lucky, gather a savings. Being self-employed as you are will be an advantage.

As for the towns, St Johnsbury is the largest in my area. It's an odd mix, and not the first place I'd want to live. The elementary and middle schools are dreadful, although St J Academy (High School) is acclaimed. There seems to be a lack of commitment of the residents and the town has it's issues with drugs. Nighttime entertainment is scarce.

About 10 miles north of St J is Lyndonville, where you have Lyndon State College, which adds a bit of a younger crowd to the town. There is a brewery in town, Trout River Brewery, which has halfway decent beer and is open for pizza on Friday and Saturday. There are a couple of restaurants in town, one of which typically has live music (jazz, acoustic) on Wednesday evenings from about 7 - 9, which is very nice. Lyndonville is a nice town - I lived downtown near Bandstand Park for a few years. They have a farmer's market there every Friday night (there's one in St J on Sundays too. or Saturday, I can't remember which)

East Burke is a great area. It's a small town, but has a lot going on for it's size. There is Burke Mountain ski resort, which is a nice smaller mountain and generally has no lift lines. There are the Kingdom Trails if you like to mountain bike, which has over 100 miles of trails on Burke Mountian and Darling Hill. Rivers, lakes (Willoughby is close, as many others too), the VAST snowmobiling trails, and hundreds of woods for hunting, hiking and general romping around. The people are friendly and the town has a good amount of activity for it's size (although I will say that the weekends are a bit nuts in the summer with all the mountain biker tourists coming for the trails). Burke Mountain usually has some live music on the weekends, and there are a few restaurants in town. Not to mention, Lyndonville is only 10 minutes down the road.

I'm not too familiar with Hardwick, although it doesn't have the best reputation. There is a small downtown with a couple restaurants. Same goes for Barton. Not saying they are bad towns, I just don't know too much about them other than what I've heard through the grapevine. For what it's worth, a friend grew up in Hardwick and she didn't want to live there because her daughter is 4 and getting close to going to school.

Schools are small in the Burke/Lyndonville area and in general nothing to worry too much about, except for St J schools. I would avoid those. Another friend's daughter just started at the Burke Town School and they have been very impressed with the teacher so far. Lyndonville schools have a decent reputation, and a very good high school too - Lyndon Institute. Some of the smaller towns have chartered school choice for high school.

Rentals in the area are tight, especially the more you travel away from St J, or to a lesser extent, Lyndonville. We rent a house now, and never filled out a credit check or payed a security deposit. People are generally trusting and friendly if you act in kind. A good person to contact for rentals in the Burke/Lyndonville area is Adrea Kupetz of Burke Mill Properties. She is helpful, very nice, and generally has her 'ears to the tracks' around here. They have a website.

As far as the people, well, if you act like a 'flatlander', you'll be treated like one. You'll probably find out pretty quick what that entails. The NEK is a generally insular place, which can be tedious at times, but not so much that you can't make friends. My townie friends up here poke fun at me for being a flatlander, but then again I give it right back to them making fun of Vermonters. If you live slow and easy and not try to mess up the life here, you be accepted as an NEK'er. If you rock the boat, you'll have a very tough time settling in.

As for the self-employment thing, I wouldn't think that would offend anybody. If you have a job and you're not relying on the state, you are one-up on many a person around here, and people appreciate the self-reliance in itself. In other words, if you're earning a living you'll be earning the respect that comes along with it.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions, ask 'em and I'll try to get you answers. Good luck to you.

Thank you!!! This is very helpful.

[kaw1972]

Swanstone--If I pass through Barton, I will contact you. Thank you!

This is my first thread on City Data, so I'm still trying to figure out how to reply.

[kaw1972]

Politically, I would identify as a liberal, and generally, although not *always*, vote similarly. I also have a stash of Backwoods Home magazines, so I'm a little libertarian around the edges as well. My own bootstraps might need to be replaced with another pair soon. ;-)

[kaw1972]

Ps- It seems like the Lyndon Motor Lodge allows dogs? Any others? Doesn't have to be fancy--just relatively clean and safe for a base for a couple of days to get a better feel for the area. When I drive up to look around, I'll have my Border Collie with me. Anyone with a herding dog will understand why. I can't leave the room for a glass of water without him following me. :-)

[PAblackbear]

Originally Posted by VTgoneaway

PAblackbear VT is more liberal and has far more liberals than MA. There is nothing conservative in VT, nothing. Let me know when Bernie loses his seat to an unknown republican state senator. Learning to be a good little worker bee in the new world order is a far more successful strategy then learning how to be a waitress/handyman in the backwaters of VT.

Which is exactly why as much as I love VT if I move out of PA it will be to Wyoming.