Southern VT vs Pioneer Valley (MA) (Burlington, Brattleboro: environment, relocating, transplants)

[ontheroad]

I am just wondering how folks see and experience the differences between say, Brattleboro, Guilford, et al and the neighbouring towns in MA: Amherst, Sunderland, Montague, etc.

I've lived in the Pioneer Valley on both sides of Rte 9, but seem to get a sense that living in Vermont only a few miles North is vastly different.

But, I can't put my finger on it.

Any ideas?

[arel]

I also have noticed that the Pioneer Valley and Southeastern Vermont feel very different, in spite of their similarities.

My experience is limited, but, for what it's worth, here are my observations: The Pioneer Valley feels very tame, intellectual and oh-so-civilized. People often have prestigious jobs and work on their careers. In Vermont, at least in Brattleboro, the feel is, at least to me, a little less disciplined and a little more free-spirited, freewheeling, and bohemian. As for work, good jobs are few and far between. Vermont is not built up and it has fewer resources. The idealism is there, but people, I think, tend to be more survival-oriented in their work.

I think that the Pioneer Valley has a richer, more abundant feel than Vermont.

Brattleboro is vibrant and culturally rich, but it is run down and dreary in a lot of places.

Also, Vermont is very hilly in the south, and increasingly mountainous as you go further north. The Pioneer Valley is much flatter. This difference in landscape itself creates a different "feel" and the difference is augmented by the architecture that, in Vermont, needs to conform to the landscape.

I love the Pioneer Valley, and for a while thought seriously about relocating there. I love the rich vegetation, I love the cosmopolitan population and I love the idea that one can buy things at a roadside stand on the honor system. When I first passed such a stand I thought it was not open. Later, we stopped and I learned that one just had to take what one wanted and put the money in the kitty. Imagine doing that where I currently live, Brookyn, NY. The food, the money, the kitty jar and even the table would be gone in a heartbeat.

I'm sure things are also safe in Vermont.

A key theme, I think, is that the Pioneer Valley has a Massachusetts culture and the Brattleboro area has a Vermont culture. Both are largely "liberal" and tolerant, but Massachusetts culture emphasizes intellectual achievement and order. Vermont culture emphasizes independence and environmental purity.

Remember, these are only general observations by someone with limited experience in the two areas.

I can almost feel my blood pressure go down as I write about these areas.

[MRVphotog]

Interesting observations. I think the folks of the Bratt area are very intellectual they just work hard on not looking like they are.

You do have Marlboro College, Landmark College(really interesting school) and the Experiment/School for International Living plus a slew of old Windham College grads still living in the woods in the area.

http://www.usexperiment.org/

[ontheroad]

MRVphotog, do you have opinions about the differences. I know you live(d) in ME, and moving over to B-town, but are you familiar with southern VT and the Pioneer Valley?

[ontheroad]

I'm thinking on these observations, arel--thanks for sharing them.

Originally Posted by arel

I also have noticed that the Pioneer Valley and Southeastern Vermont feel very different, in spite of their similarities.

My experience is limited, but, for what it's worth, here are my observations: The Pioneer Valley feels very tame, intellectual and oh-so-civilized. People often have prestigious jobs and work on their careers. In Vermont, at least in Brattleboro, the feel is, at least to me, a little less disciplined and a little more free-spirited, freewheeling, and bohemian. As for work, good jobs are few and far between. Vermont is not built up and it has fewer resources. The idealism is there, but people, I think, tend to be more survival-oriented in their work.

I think that the Pioneer Valley has a richer, more abundant feel than Vermont.

Brattleboro is vibrant and culturally rich, but it is run down and dreary in a lot of places.

Also, Vermont is very hilly in the south, and increasingly mountainous as you go further north. The Pioneer Valley is much flatter. This difference in landscape itself creates a different "feel" and the difference is augmented by the architecture that, in Vermont, needs to conform to the landscape.

I love the Pioneer Valley, and for a while thought seriously about relocating there. I love the rich vegetation, I love the cosmopolitan population and I love the idea that one can buy things at a roadside stand on the honor system. When I first passed such a stand I thought it was not open. Later, we stopped and I learned that one just had to take what one wanted and put the money in the kitty. Imagine doing that where I currently live, Brookyn, NY. The food, the money, the kitty jar and even the table would be gone in a heartbeat.

I'm sure things are also safe in Vermont.

A key theme, I think, is that the Pioneer Valley has a Massachusetts culture and the Brattleboro area has a Vermont culture. Both are largely "liberal" and tolerant, but Massachusetts culture emphasizes intellectual achievement and order. Vermont culture emphasizes independence and environmental purity.

Remember, these are only general observations by someone with limited experience in the two areas.

I can almost feel my blood pressure go down as I write about these areas.

[MRVphotog]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

MRVphotog, do you have opinions about the differences. I know you live(d) in ME, and moving over to B-town, but are you familiar with southern VT and the Pioneer Valley?

I lived in Putney, just north of Bratt, for 6 years, currently live in Waitsfield, never lived in Burlington.

The Pioneer Valley is a big area, any particular part? Not a big fan of Springfield, I find the Amherst/Northhampton crowded but do like the Greenfield area, northern Bershires and North Adams area.

My wife and I participate(food vendors) in the Green River Music and Balloon Festival in Greenfield every summer which is an awesome event. We have served food to hundreds of people in the area and they seem to be really nice. A bunch of top rated colleges plus the huge UMASS campus is in the area which is cool. Got to see Julius Erving play at UMASS before he was Dr. J, unreal!

I guess I don't feel all that comfortable commenting on Pioneer Valley cause I'm a over educated Vermont woodchuck who when I cross the Vermont/MA on I91 I always honk my horn as I am glad to be home so my take on the Pioneer Valley is abit jaded.

I really like the Bratt area, very ecletic mix of longtime farmers and highly educated transplants, many who are working artists who have lived in and left their mark on the area for the last 40 years. You have old liberal hippies from the 60's who are now town selectmen and conservative Vermonters who's families have lived in the area for many generations and are on that same selectboard. They come from diferent sides of the aisle but get along well which is something that is important to me. People are open minded.

They might argue vehemetly about an issue at the annual town meeting but afterwards they are sharing an apple pie made from a local orchard. They might be diferently politically but caring about the schools, the roads, the environment, the importance of family farms are just a few of the common bonds they hold dear to their hearts.

I see lots of "I Love Vermont" bumper stickers in the Pioneer Valley but have never seen a "I Love the Pioneer Valley" bumper stickers in southeastern Vermont. See, what did I tell you...I'm totally jaded. I bet there are lots of folks who live in the PV area that think's it's the cat's meow, understandbly so.

[cullen90]

Brattleboro area is far superior in my oppinion. I went to school in Amherst and did like certain things about it. But I did not like the endless traffic along route 9 and the liberal intellectual elete feel to the area. Brattleboro is a place like no other, a pretty town with culture and outdoors. Ignore the comments about the dreary run down parts of town. These people have obviously not traveled much. I honestly wonder if there is any other place on earth like Brattleboro. A community where spawl hasn't wrecked everything, with culture, outdoors and a friendly community atmosphere. All of this in a livable, small town. You feel like you are in a magic place, removed from the rest of the mad world. You feel surrounded by wilderness, which makes the community, the civilization, all that more cozy and special. Brattleboro can feel overly liberal to me at times, though this liberal attitude is also exactly what makes Brattleboro such a nice, interesting place to live. Although people are liberal minded, they are not the eletist intellectuals you will find in the pioneer valley. I have had some amazingly great times in Brattleboro, spent most of my 20s there and I will never forget what a wonderful place it is.

[arel]

Ignore the comments about the dreary run down parts of town. These people have obviously not traveled much.

Cullen 90, why the hurtful put-down? You can question, disagree with, add to, modify or enlarge the perspective of what someone else posts without discounting the poster. It is also inappropriate to make assumptions about people you have never met.

Your casual rudeness marred what was otherwise a wonderful, sensitive, encouraging and well-intentioned post. I am thinking of relocating to Brattleboro and your comments were very valuable to me.

Also, it marred a good point about putting the dreary and run-down parts of town in a larger perspective.

[chaz longue]

Fascinating post, cullen90.

I'm sure the "liberal intellectual elete" aspect of Amherst and the area is pronounced. It seems ironic, since Amherst is known for...well...a Liberal Arts College - presumably full of intellectuals, (or so the parents and students paying the bills would hope) who chose an "elite school".


Besides - I've heard there are quite a few "liberals" in MA. to begin with ...

[chaz longue]

btw - anybody read the Tracy Kidder book about Northampton?