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The bulk of Chitty County appears to be folks that relocated for the “way of life” and scenery, but they also have held onto their underlying beliefs from “away” which is interpreted (pretty correctly in my opinion) as having cherry picked the parts of Vermont they like and therefore haven’t really embraced the “way of life” of the native Vermonters. To them it is like going to church just on the holidays; they won’t believe you’re a “real Catholic” as you have cherry picked the parts that suit you and chosen to ignore the others.
Here's the thing though... the minute you move to a place and become a resident, you have every right to make that place your own. That's life and the American way (after all... look what happened to the real natives in this country).
The problem is that newcomers shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. You say that newcomers should get to know the natives... but what about the natives getting to know the newcomers? Perhaps they're not all that different... but they assume people go there just for the scenery and the dream of VT. People move to a new place for different reasons... all valid. Way of life and scenery just happen to be a couple of those reasons people move to VT... and part of the reason I want to move there. But you better believe I'm moving there with my same beliefs from where I am now and where I came from before this.
Here's the thing though... the minute you move to a place and become a resident, you have every right to make that place your own. That's life and the American way (after all... look what happened to the real natives in this country).
The problem is that newcomers shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. You say that newcomers should get to know the natives... but what about the natives getting to know the newcomers? Perhaps they're not all that different... but they assume people go there just for the scenery and the dream of VT. People move to a new place for different reasons... all valid. Way of life and scenery just happen to be a couple of those reasons people move to VT... and part of the reason I want to move there. But you better believe I'm moving there with my same beliefs from where I am now and where I came from before this.
Legally you may be right, but in reality, you're wrong (and if you don't believe me, try going to some small town dominated by real VT'ers and making it into RI or NJ or NY or wherever, see how quick before you're packing home). We created this state (literally by fighting some colonies and later states) and its culture and way of life. If the attitudes and beliefs and so on prevalent where you are coming from and are bringing, are so good, you wouldn't come here in the first place, because they clearly resulted in you wanting to leave. If someone comes from N or RI and drags the attitudes of those areas up with them, it'll just result in another NJ or RI.
I stopped being a visitor when I started paying taxes. I actually chose to be here and many of them would leave if they could.
I'm not judging anyone, it's a fact that there are a lot of people of whom I'm speaking. It's a fact that there are a lot of people who come up here and try to make changes. Assuming everyone is in one group or another is wrong.
Even a visitor just passing through probably pays taxes at some point. Feel free to give us your tax money, but leave the politics behind.
Legally you may be right, but in reality, you're wrong (and if you don't believe me, try going to some small town dominated by real VT'ers and making it into RI or NJ or NY or wherever, see how quick before you're packing home). We created this state (literally by fighting some colonies and later states) and its culture and way of life. If the attitudes and beliefs and so on prevalent where you are coming from and are bringing, are so good, you wouldn't come here in the first place, because they clearly resulted in you wanting to leave. If someone comes from N or RI and drags the attitudes of those areas up with them, it'll just result in another NJ or RI.
Did you ever stop and think that we leave behind the attitudes but bring the beliefs to a place where we like the scenery?
I wouldn't move somewhere if I didn't agree with the majority of the people (which is why you don't see me moving to the south or mid-west). The majority of the people in VT seem to be pretty liberal these days. Whether or not that's "real VT" is beside the point.
Even a visitor just passing through probably pays taxes at some point. Feel free to give us your tax money, but leave the politics behind.
What's the "us" stuff? You are arguing with people who chose to move here
or want to move here. You are the one who wants to move out, as stated in your profile.
From my experience, there is a faction of “Vermonters” that have gone full curmudgeon and are a little delusional about the “issues” and what were the real catalysts behind the differences between 1950 Vermont and today’s Vermont. They will spout off about all the hippies and folks from “away” etc. like Vermont is the only place in the US that has gone through changes in the past 60 years. They will blame “outsiders” coming to VT for the loss of the family dairy farm etc. while in reality there is probably a farmer in the mid-west with corporately backed farm with 4000-8000 head of cattle that is the real cause of the demise of the 200 head of cattle small family dairy farm, but to the old Vermonter and their family it is the guy from NYC with the fancy pants job and the condo who did it. They’ll take the attitude that a person must prove themselves worthy of their respect before they get the common courtesy offered to even their native Vermont enemies. They will swear to the core that living through a Vermont winter is harder than other places, and in many cases it is. They wear that with pride, and there is nothing wrong with that.
There is obviously some truth to outsiders coming in and drastically changing the political landscape of VT in the past 40 years and for many that is unfortunate. Frankly, I probably would have liked 1950 VT even better than 2010 VT.
I have also found a faction of native Vermonters, mostly in the 50 and younger crowd that have realized that fighting the inevitable and blaming everyone else for Vermont’s problems isn’t exactly a winning course of action. So they take more time to get to know you as a person and then judge you for your actual merits rather than by your license plate and state of origin. To those folks I’ve been called a “good flatlander” vs. the “bad flatlanders” who come in and try and change things. We came to VT because we like the way it is, we don’t want it to be more like anywhere else other than VT. I like mud roads, I like hunting, fishing, snowshoeing, snowmobiling, outdoor fires, etc. I think VT winters in the NEK are easier to deal with than Southern New England slop etc., I like having to think about what I’m going to buy when I make a run to the stores because I can’t just hit another one when I forget something. I like seeing the same people in town when I go. In short, I like the way it is, why change it.
So to the folks that fall into the first faction of “blame everyone curmudgeons”, we’ll agree to disagree; the second faction are great people and I call them my friends. Most folks in the curmudgeon realm blame everyone else for everything in their lives as well so it isn’t just flatlanders: they argue with the police when they know they broke the law, they blame the bank for screwing them even though they signed the agreement, they blame contractors for choices they make during a job etc.
It is what it is...........welcome to VT I guess.............
Frankly, I probably would have liked 1950 VT even better than 2010 VT.
1950 VT would not exist today. The country as a whole has changed quite a bit since then and even without the "flatlanders" and "hippies" that have "ruined" VT, the state would be completely different today than it was 60 years ago.
1950 VT would not exist today. The country as a whole has changed quite a bit since then and even without the "flatlanders" and "hippies" that have "ruined" VT, the state would be completely different today than it was 60 years ago.
We agree on that.
Ironically, Vermont has probably changed less since 1950 than many other areas of our country, although the faction of curmudgeon Natvie Vermonters wouldn't know that. They would rather think all the ills of the world have manifested themselves in Vermont as Ground Zero..........which makes it hard for some to take them seriously.
^^ RunawayJim, as much as I hate to disagree with a fellow Phan (), I think you are wrong about it being OK to just move somewhere and change it however you want. That's not the way it works. I'm originally from Alabama, and I know that if a bunch of New Yorkers came to Birmingham and started trying to change things, they would be run out of town before you could blink twice! I think, if anything, Vermonters are too quiet about their opinions, and they don't take action. They will sit around all day and talk about how they hate what the flatlanders are doing to the state, but most of them will not make any real effort to facilitate change. Nothing annoys me more than someone who has the energy to complain but is too lazy to do anything about it. That being said, though, that does not excuse the out-of-staters who come and try to completely change the state. More often than not, that does not end well, and it just stirs up angst and unrest among the residents of the state. Just think how you would feel if a bunch of people from Alabama came to RI and started trying to make it just like Alabama. You would be pissed.
I am glad that you read The Book and know of the wonders of Gamehenge though. Always great to run across my brothers and sisters in random places.
^^ RunawayJim, as much as I hate to disagree with a fellow Phan (), I think you are wrong about it being OK to just move somewhere and change it however you want. That's not the way it works. I'm originally from Alabama, and I know that if a bunch of New Yorkers came to Birmingham and started trying to change things, they would be run out of town before you could blink twice! I think, if anything, Vermonters are too quiet about their opinions, and they don't take action. They will sit around all day and talk about how they hate what the flatlanders are doing to the state, but most of them will not make any real effort to facilitate change. Nothing annoys me more than someone who has the energy to complain but is too lazy to do anything about it. That being said, though, that does not excuse the out-of-staters who come and try to completely change the state. More often than not, that does not end well, and it just stirs up angst and unrest among the residents of the state. Just think how you would feel if a bunch of people from Alabama came to RI and started trying to make it just like Alabama. You would be pissed.
I am glad that you read The Book and know of the wonders of Gamehenge though. Always great to run across my brothers and sisters in random places.
You didn't understand me... by no means did I mean that it's ok to just go in and change it. What I meant was you better believe I'm bringing the same beliefs and values that I had elsewhere with me. No one, unless they absolutely have to because of a job or something, moves to a place that is completely different from their own views just to change it. The majority of VT shares my views on things. If I move somewhere it's because I like everything about the place. If there's something I don't like, I will work to change it. I will not move to Alabama (ever), but if I did, it would be because it's not NY/RI/NJ/CT/MA.
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), I think you are wrong about it being OK to just move somewhere and change it however you want. That's not the way it works. I'm originally from Alabama, and I know that if a bunch of New Yorkers came to Birmingham and started trying to change things, they would be run out of town before you could blink twice! I think, if anything, Vermonters are too quiet about their opinions, and they don't take action. They will sit around all day and talk about how they hate what the flatlanders are doing to the state, but most of them will not make any real effort to facilitate change. Nothing annoys me more than someone who has the energy to complain but is too lazy to do anything about it. That being said, though, that does not excuse the out-of-staters who come and try to completely change the state. More often than not, that does not end well, and it just stirs up angst and unrest among the residents of the state. Just think how you would feel if a bunch of people from Alabama came to RI and started trying to make it just like Alabama. You would be pissed.
