[Logs and Dogs]

Vermont’s population and history is very dynamic; we have hashed it out about this topic many times. While we can all point to some of the flaws, negatives and pure “what the heck” quirks of Vermont and it’s governing population, we never seem to talk about any of the good things going on in VT that may gain some momentum to help alleviate or repair some of the negatives, flaws and “what the heck” quirks.

For example, in another thread I mentioned the great job some 30-40 year old folks are doing by reinventing the Vermont farm, by producing a more marketable mix of niche products on a smaller plot of land. Instead of a 300 acre dairy farm that struggles to compete in a country-wide market dominated by corporate farms 10-100x’s as large as they are, the newer model relies on providing high quality small batch cheeses, breads, veggies and grains, meats etc. on 30, 40, 80 acres. Less land costs, less reliance on one market’s fluctuations etc.

One of my favorite things about Vermont is the amount of support for the local stores and real desire to buy local and be self sustaining without relying on imports from cheap labor markets etc. Of course this is the same thought process that also resists bringing in some of the low cost mass retailers, which I’m fine with, but people then can’t complain about slightly higher prices for everything. News flash, Bob’s Hardware Store isn’t going to have the same buying power as Wal-Mart or Lowes……..can’t have it both ways.

I think Vermont also has done a good job embracing their best product right now, tourism………..but I think that has also gone overboard from a development standpoint (think the major ski areas) and now is a mixed blessing. It provides jobs, but it also prices natives out of the local real estate market. I think what Kingdom Trails has done in the NEK is a good model and I know it is being duplicated. Bringing in plenty of tourist dollars for established businesses (restaurants, bars, stores, inns and campgrounds) but not letting things be too commercial.

We have so many negative VT threads that I figured maybe one positive one would be nice………..I could be alone on this though……….

So what other things can we say are positives about VT? Other evidence of smaller movements/pockets of new thinking, new business models, success despite the current conditions etc.?

Then again………….I might be the only post on here about this………… ;-)

[vter]

I agree with your take on farms. Where I live in VT we do have some successful dairy farms, but they are large - 1000+ cows. The smaller farms that we see thriving have diversified like you've mentioned above.
I think its great that Vermont has been a leader in the local foods movement. It's very important IMO to know where our food comes from and to support our neighbors.
I like that we have lots of successful small businesses in the state. I'm only familiar with those in Chittenden & Addison Counties but I know they exist throughout the state. In fact it was just announced that a company is moving it's US Headquarters to Middlebury - good news!
High-tech jobs headed to Vermont - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports- We're not going to see another IBM come to the state but if we can support small businesses, then great.
There is a lot more about Vermont that I like...yes, we have our challenges here, but to me, they are worth it.

[soreknees]

What a good , positive post about one of my favorite states.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by vter

I like that we have lots of successful small businesses in the state. I'm only familiar with those in Chittenden & Addison Counties but I know they exist throughout the state. In fact it was just announced that a company is moving it's US Headquarters to Middlebury - good news!
High-tech jobs headed to Vermont - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports- We're not going to see another IBM come to the state but if we can support small businesses, then great.
There is a lot more about Vermont that I like...yes, we have our challenges here, but to me, they are worth it.

I think we're going to see small businesses leading the way everywhere now. For too long, Providence was worried about attracting bigger corporations while there were a bunch of smaller start-ups popping up in the city. It's those smaller businesses that are what we need. When a big corporation moves into a place, they're usually leaving somewhere else. While it's great for the place they move to, if they're leaving somewhere in the same region (like another New England state), it's really not that great.

States need to nurture and help the small businesses grow. It's good to see that happening in VT.

[Sherylcatmom]

I agree. My spouse and I are enjoying and learning our way through this book:

Small-Mart | Cutting edge ideas for small business, social enterprise, community economies and sustainable employability.

Lots of data to support small, home-grown, home-serving businesses when possible, exporting maximum home-grown/produced goods, and importing the rest as needed.

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

I think we're going to see small businesses leading the way everywhere now. For too long, Providence was worried about attracting bigger corporations while there were a bunch of smaller start-ups popping up in the city. It's those smaller businesses that are what we need. When a big corporation moves into a place, they're usually leaving somewhere else. While it's great for the place they move to, if they're leaving somewhere in the same region (like another New England state), it's really not that great.

States need to nurture and help the small businesses grow. It's good to see that happening in VT.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Logs and Dogs

Vermont’s population and history is very dynamic; we have hashed it out about this topic many times. While we can all point to some of the flaws, negatives and pure “what the heck” quirks of Vermont and it’s governing population, we never seem to talk about any of the good things going on in VT that may gain some momentum to help alleviate or repair some of the negatives, flaws and “what the heck” quirks.

For example, in another thread I mentioned the great job some 30-40 year old folks are doing by reinventing the Vermont farm, by producing a more marketable mix of niche products on a smaller plot of land. Instead of a 300 acre dairy farm that struggles to compete in a country-wide market dominated by corporate farms 10-100x’s as large as they are, the newer model relies on providing high quality small batch cheeses, breads, veggies and grains, meats etc. on 30, 40, 80 acres. Less land costs, less reliance on one market’s fluctuations etc.

One of my favorite things about Vermont is the amount of support for the local stores and real desire to buy local and be self sustaining without relying on imports from cheap labor markets etc. Of course this is the same thought process that also resists bringing in some of the low cost mass retailers, which I’m fine with, but people then can’t complain about slightly higher prices for everything. News flash, Bob’s Hardware Store isn’t going to have the same buying power as Wal-Mart or Lowes……..can’t have it both ways.

I think Vermont also has done a good job embracing their best product right now, tourism………..but I think that has also gone overboard from a development standpoint (think the major ski areas) and now is a mixed blessing. It provides jobs, but it also prices natives out of the local real estate market. I think what Kingdom Trails has done in the NEK is a good model and I know it is being duplicated. Bringing in plenty of tourist dollars for established businesses (restaurants, bars, stores, inns and campgrounds) but not letting things be too commercial.

We have so many negative VT threads that I figured maybe one positive one would be nice………..I could be alone on this though……….

So what other things can we say are positives about VT? Other evidence of smaller movements/pockets of new thinking, new business models, success despite the current conditions etc.?

Then again………….I might be the only post on here about this………… ;-)

Well, I got a deer in Hubbardton yesterday, just a mile from where some of my ancestors shot at the redcoats. That's something good. I won't be buying any grocery store meat this winter, between that, some bear hams and a little moose along with beaver...local food.

Economy-wise...I don't know. We've got only a few big businesses like Century Arms (they're here probably only because of our gun laws). I see a lot of small businesses start up and a lot of them fail. Some take off. I do see a lot of support for keeping the old country stores going around the state. They can't compete with walmart but I do enjoy going to some of them. Some have specialized in harder to find items to keep going.

It seems to me more people are getting interested in having small farms and if they can get over the hurdles of the cost of land and equipment they can, if as you say diversify, do somewhat well. Some relatives of mine still farm and have done okay by having multiple income sources: maple tapping, apple and nut orchards, dairy for which they grow their own feed though it's a tiny dairy operation, they do a small amount of hogs and smoke bacon every fall to sell, and lately have started getting into the Christmas tree business. There's a lot of hard work going into keeping that farm afloat, and they have a some real good flat fields helping things; if they were up North in the NEK like my family's old rocky/hilly farm I suspect they'd be having a much tougher time of it (less options for fruits, nuts, shorter growing season, more isolated, etc.).

[swanstone1]

I just recently started watching planetgreen and every morning Emeril has a "green" cooking and quips show. Last week he profiled a Thetford farm that not only sells through a market, but is teaching kids about sustainability by growing your own food. Then he went to an Inn that only served meals using local products. (ie, a sheep farm that grew own veggies, fed sheep and then used the whey from the sheeps milk to feed the pigs that they used for proscuitto.)

Seems that VT is the leader in the country for reintroducing the younger generation the value of farming and sustainability. It made me want to go milk my sheep!

[Logs and Dogs]

These are interesting responses; They also are consistent with my observations.

Most of my in depth first hand exposure of VT is in the NEK, knowing that the NEK is considered one of, if not the most isolated part of the state (a good thing in my opinion), so most of my observations have been centered in the northern part of the state (including some Chitty county etc.). The way I look at it, if I see some signs of new life in the farming and small business world in the NEK, then it has to be a good sign overall.

That being said, I was in St. J’s and Island Pond over the weekend with my wife and there are a lot of prime retail spots open, just no businesses to fill them. I’m not sure if those old store fronts will ever be filled the way they used to be back in the day as the world of retail has changed. As high speed (or higher speed I should say) internet sweeps through VT and as long as Fed Ex and UPS deliver the need for those “odds and ends” shops has dried up. Not just in VT, but everywhere. Unfortunately it is a little bit of a double whammy in VT as no big retailers have come in as well, which is good from a landscape etc, picture, but they usually bring jobs. So the retail scene in VT is a little sketchy as mom and pops are closed but no large retailers are there providing any jobs.

I bet some of those commercial spots would make great loft style affordable housing though……..

The hard part about the “new farm” is pricing the products in a way to make them both appealing to Vermonters but also to pay the bills. I would love to buy more free range/organic beef for instance (when I run out of venison etc.) but at $10+/lb for cuts you can get at the market for $3/lb, it’s hard to support them consistently.

Land and buildings aren’t really all that pricey at this point, no matter what people keep saying on this board. $1000-2500/acre with out buildings isn’t all that ludicrous given then potential.

[RunawayJim]

The thing about retail is it has to serve a niche you can't get on the internet. There are a bunch of niches that work though. In Providence, we have a lot of artists and crafty people. Every year at the beginning of December a store would open up called Craftland, giving those people a place to sell their wares. It's mostly gifty stuff, but it's pretty nice/fun stuff, and reasonably priced. Craftland is now a permanent store in Providence, open all year. It's basically like a storefront for Etsy, though not as expensive as Etsy. Vermont has a lot of those crafty, artsy people who make stuff. A store like that would do well, though I'm not sure if St. J's is the best spot for it (it's better suited for a more populated city or a place that sees more tourists).

Empty office space is also good for those small businesses and startups I'm talking about. It's probably a great place for tech firms.

[Logs and Dogs]

Jim – VT absolutely has the population of artists/crafts people to support a place like that; whether it is a St J’s type place or located elsewhere near the tourist money, I’m sure that model of gallery is being used to success.

Regarding retail, you are 100% correct. Niche stuff, or a niche service is the differentiator that success can be built on as long as the local see value in the product vs. alternatives.

Tech is only as good as the talent it can attract; certain areas of VT are prime for a small tech type business as long as they have a reasonable supply of young energetic tech savvy talent that wants to remain in VT.

I think one of the really impressive things going for the “back to Farm” type movement in VT is the organization of the networks to bring them all to market. That is the successful formula. Co-op type arrangements as well as pooling together resources to bring together a selection of products to market from a single location, or scheduled location like farmers markets. VT is filled with “end of driveway” type signs for home based side businesses like crafts, honey, meats, veggies etc. but they are limiting themselves to the passing traffic and word of mouth. They may be able to significantly supplement their sales by joining a network of some type.