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Old 04-26-2018, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,334 posts, read 450,494 times
Reputation: 2002

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I'd be interested in finding out if, once people come back, they decide to leave again for economic reasons. I've known a few people who've done that. They just could not make a decent enough living to meet their goals for home ownership and having a family. They didn't want to 'struggle.' I agree that cheaper doesn't mean greener and many forego higher wages for what they perceive to be a better life. I did that 15 years ago when I moved here from CA. My desire to move on, though, involves both climate and costs.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:24 AM
 
2,781 posts, read 998,477 times
Reputation: 3678
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Any and all of those "which State is best" rankings use their own biased criteria for what they view as important. I've seen southern States ranked high because of climate and northern States ranked low on that factor. For me it is quite the opposite. You couldn't pay me enough to live down south, in part because of the climate. I think Vermont's climate is close to ideal. Temps over 80 are hard to take so for me cold is good, hot is bad. To each their own.

Affluent retirees can look at Vermont for its lifestyle and beauty without needing to worry about employment, or the taxes for that matter. For young people starting out it is a very different story.

Some people like urban/suburban living with all of the conveniences and don't care about the crowds, traffic, and crime. Vermont doesn't fit the bill for that group. For others the fact that VT is largely rural without any large cities has great appeal.

Whether our property taxes are seen as high or not depends upon where you are coming from. Regardless it'll be subsidized for low and moderate income households, about 2/3's of households actually.

Vermont is paradise on earth for folks like me, and not so much for some others. There are 50 States out there to choose from. Yes it is cheaper down south, but it is hot and the culture doesn't fit me at all. I'd rather pay more and be comfortable culturally here in VT, but I can easily afford it so the economic aspect is not a big criteria. However, I do believe we are wasting vast amounts keeping half empty schools open, not to mention the impact it has on the kids.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:39 AM
 
68 posts, read 59,286 times
Reputation: 232
This is a basic comment (and nothing new to many) from someone who doesn't like Vermont or has been in Vermont all their life and grew up Republican in what you call a Socialist state (which there is nothing wrong with). Why does one live in a state that one doesn't like or thinks is going in the wrong direction?

Give me a stat about 2nd home ownership in Vermont (which they are taxed more because they don't live here)?

Bringing big business into a state, doesn't lower your taxes, doesn't make things cheaper, and doesn't help the lower class. It moves the lower class to the fringes of suburbia to support the middle class. With more traffic, more pollution (no I'm not a hippy) and increases costs for a state that is fairly cheap to live in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamjedlicka View Post
VT is MA North....w/out the population. Many of the land trusts, and similar organizations, are all run by folks from other parts.....who own homes or 2nd homes here - or at least, that's my understanding. Their socialist/progressive leanings prevent real recruitment of businesses to our state, development of any kind, and a tax/spend mentality on a myriad of social programs (while you can't get a pothole fixed to save your live). hmmmmmmm
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:55 AM
 
5,820 posts, read 13,274,889 times
Reputation: 9276
I live in upstate NY and am paying $6K on 2200 sq. ft. house and 3.5 acres. According to the media people are leaving the northeast in droves headed to states with less of a tax burden and indicating due to GOP tax plan (unable to deduct more than $10K in state taxes). I am not sure how the tax plan really affects everyone since 2018 federal/state taxes haven't been filed yet and there are increases in standard deduction. I digress. I have friends in states all over the country and they pay a considerable amount less in property taxes, yet find other costs (insurance, personal tax, tax on pensions (especially state pensions which are only deductible in the state you worked), etc. have increased. IMO the mass exodus from the northeast has to affect the infrastructure on the states people are moving into and eventually increase taxes/costs to support the infrastructure. My 2 cents.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,334 posts, read 450,494 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by domc View Post
This is a basic comment (and nothing new to many) from someone who doesn't like Vermont or has been in Vermont all their life and grew up Republican in what you call a Socialist state (which there is nothing wrong with). Why does one live in a state that one doesn't like or thinks is going in the wrong direction?

Give me a stat about 2nd home ownership in Vermont (which they are taxed more because they don't live here)?

Bringing big business into a state, doesn't lower your taxes, doesn't make things cheaper, and doesn't help the lower class. It moves the lower class to the fringes of suburbia to support the middle class. With more traffic, more pollution (no I'm not a hippy) and increases costs for a state that is fairly cheap to live in.
I'm not sure all your questions are directed at me, but I'll comment just to clarify.
No, I have not lived in VT all my life, but I am originally from NY. When my husband and I travelled here on vacation from CA we knew it was the landscape we wanted to live in, rural and all, QUIET and all, low wages and all (I took a very large pay cut to move here and have never made it up). We have been very happy here most of the time.
No, I do not like the way the state funds education, but hey, I live here and I pay taxes, and I can complain if I want (thank you George Carlin) although I don't make it a habit. The situation does not seem to be improving and as I contemplate retirement, I am not fond of the idea of still having to pay full taxes since I don't believe I will qualify for the subsidy. (Edit - and that greatly impacts my retirement budget).
But beyond that, I have also grown tired of the long, cold winters. I did grow up in Central America, and lived in CA for 20 years (and all over, Colorado mountains, etc) and though I missed seasons, this winter season here has gotten a bit much for me, and I don't do well anymore in low light. If you've followed my posts at all you know I am exploring a move south. Turns out it is a less expensive to live further south, but I might try a snow-bird thing if I determine I could afford it. All options are in play.
I will not debate you on whether or not Vermont is a socialist state or whether bringing business in to the state creates a better financial situation for its residents. We each have our own opinions.

Hoping for a great spring/summer season!

Last edited by Riley.; 04-26-2018 at 09:10 AM.. Reason: remove apostrophe
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Old 04-26-2018, 02:27 PM
 
5,820 posts, read 13,274,889 times
Reputation: 9276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Any and all of those "which State is best" rankings use their own biased criteria for what they view as important. I've seen southern States ranked high because of climate and northern States ranked low on that factor. For me it is quite the opposite. You couldn't pay me enough to live down south, in part because of the climate. I think Vermont's climate is close to ideal. Temps over 80 are hard to take so for me cold is good, hot is bad. To each their own.
I agree with you BIKER. We were snowbirds for 12 years, spent most of the time in the FL Keys. I have no love lost for the south. It's hot and humid, bugs, snakes, alligators, iguanas, etc. Every year our dog would get sick and the Vet told us it was because of the coral which is porous and carries a lot of bacteria. Didn't have that problem up north. Many people cannot understand why we live up north and have snow and cold weather where you can't go out. Well, the heat and humidity is no paradise IMO. You go from AC to AC from March 15th to October. Hell my heat is only on November through mid-April. I can still go out when it's cold and walk on a brisk cold day with no wind. Now that my husband has passed, I will remain upstate in the winter and the only thing I miss about the south is my friends.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:21 PM
 
Location: portland, me
797 posts, read 1,899,244 times
Reputation: 416
This thread has been an interesting read. I am in my late 30's and my gf is in her mid 30's. We are planning a move to the NEK hopefully this year. We currently live in Portland, ME, and the reason we are moving is for a better lifestyle. We want out of the city, and away from people. The NEK will allow us to pursue our outdoor hobbies, and have a home with more land than what is possible in our area in Maine.

I am originally from NH so I am aware of states with low tax burdens. Maine, however, is a higher taxed state similar to VT, but we are okay with that. I will be taking a possible pay cut, but her pay will be similar. Ultimately, I think the quality of life over rides the change in wealth.
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Old 04-30-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,334 posts, read 450,494 times
Reputation: 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
This thread has been an interesting read. I am in my late 30's and my gf is in her mid 30's. We are planning a move to the NEK hopefully this year. We currently live in Portland, ME, and the reason we are moving is for a better lifestyle. We want out of the city, and away from people. The NEK will allow us to pursue our outdoor hobbies, and have a home with more land than what is possible in our area in Maine.

I am originally from NH so I am aware of states with low tax burdens. Maine, however, is a higher taxed state similar to VT, but we are okay with that. I will be taking a possible pay cut, but her pay will be similar. Ultimately, I think the quality of life over rides the change in wealth.
Wishing you the best of luck and happiness on your move! NEK is beautiful, no doubt!
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: VT; previously MD & NJ
2,137 posts, read 1,309,730 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
This thread has been an interesting read. I am in my late 30's and my gf is in her mid 30's. We are planning a move to the NEK hopefully this year. We currently live in Portland, ME, and the reason we are moving is for a better lifestyle. We want out of the city, and away from people. The NEK will allow us to pursue our outdoor hobbies, and have a home with more land than what is possible in our area in Maine.

I am originally from NH so I am aware of states with low tax burdens. Maine, however, is a higher taxed state similar to VT, but we are okay with that. I will be taking a possible pay cut, but her pay will be similar. Ultimately, I think the quality of life over rides the change in wealth.
Oh my. We all have such a different definition of a city.

Best of luck.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:26 PM
 
441 posts, read 838,835 times
Reputation: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinG60 View Post
Yeah. That was rude.
Never understand why people need to resort to snarky comments to make a point.

As for those pesky stats?
Realtor databases, moving company stats, money magazines, all fake stats, right?

And just to clarify: I don't have excess money, I'm not stupid and between this 58 year old gal and her 62 year old partner and some help by family/ friends, we moved all our stuff to Vt, trailer load by trailer load.
Hi Robin, may I ask how long you have lived in Vermont?
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