[LBNY]

Originally Posted by chaz longue

Arlington is two towns North of Bennington, in Southern VT, on the western border of the State.

Arlington is only 3 towns from the Massachusets border, and may be a longer drive from Burlington than Montreal is...

Weather and pay / cost of living has been addresses fairly extensively at the other VT threads here.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Social Security

Under Democratic Administrations, Social Security was quite efficient. It's teetered on the verge of bankruptcy or worse under the auspices of Republican Administrations bent on dismantling it.

Originally Posted by Georgia

FEMA

Up until G.W. Bush took over, FEMA was famed around the world for its efficiency. Governments from all over the world sent their own delegates to learn from FEMA.

Originally Posted by Georgia

Yes, we have major issues today with modern corporations since most are in the leadership hands of the dreaded Baby Boomer Me Generation.
But when you look at beaucracy's running the show it will spell even more doom.

What on earth makes you think corporations are any less bureacratic? If anything, they're worse! Try making an insurance claim. Try something even simpler, like changing your long-distance service. You'll be on the phone 10 minutes minimum listening to a computer.

Thick bureacracy is a problem anywhere, but private corporations are no more immune to it than government. The big difference (dare I say the crucial difference?) is that the government is not out to make a profit. The aim of FEMA or the FDA or any of those programs is not to make a small board of directors super-rich.

Originally Posted by Georgia

Don't see many Americans hopping on planes to seek care elsewhere unless it involves drugs being available in France or Canada that are not here, of course due to the Government ran FDA not corporations.

That's because the people most in need of health care can barely afford to pay for basic medication, much less "hop on planes" to France or Canada.

Originally Posted by Georgia

One the defense front, (I'm prior Military) the reason you have items there in government that work is due to stong instilled discipline and a no excuse accountable network.

No argument from me there. But I would add that another reason the military is effective is because they aren't out to make a profit. Can you imagine if corporations had been in charge of Iwo Jima or D-Day?

"I'm sorry, Mr. President, but D-Day is just cost ineffective. In fact, in order to shore up our 3rd quarter profits, we're going to have to outplace our armored divisions. And these parachutes! Way too expensive. We've figured that if the men leave behind their guns and ammunition, we can drop three men per parachute."

Or can you imagine if you called the fire department and they had to run a credit check before coming to put out the fire in your house?

Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not advocating the government running everything. When it comes to production, commerce, media, etc., that all ought to be in the hands of we the people. But when it comes to basic public services, like defense, health care, and the commons, then those areas need to be run by organizations accountable to the democratic process (which corporations certainly are not) and whose sole aim is not to tender the largest profit possible.

[Georgia]

Wow, my Vermont friend, you must have never been out of your wonderful state. FEMA being famed around the world. It is obvious you have never lived through a natural disaster outside of your television.

Try Hugo, the massive flooding in West Virginia when the dam broke. Don't know about you but I spent many a day pulling carcasses of cattle out of trees and feeding soup lines. We did not depend on government because.
- They were not around.
- By the time you had to deal with some beaucrat that could not even understand the 17 page document he was provide, much less read, you could have rebuilt our town, basically useless.

Of course you can also add Floyd in NJ and Andrew in Florida.

Here is what FEMA is good for, providing broken down trailers and powdered milk, that is whenever they show up.

Beaucratic Corps vs Beaucratic Govt:

Did not say they were less beaucratic.
When it comes to two industries, insurance and banking are your most regulated by our meddling government. You will find that most or all actions by insurance and banking, which causes delay is because of some type of beaucratic action.
Now, to be honest. I don't mind this. But here is the other side of the coin.
What are most politicians? Lawyers.
Until we have tort reform we will not have proper regulation. Ever notice that when most of these scrubs in government retire their post they go back and either work as lawyers for lobbyist or get involved in some type of big law firm.
I can write a two page book on this, but go study New Jersey if you want to see how out of control big government and non-restricted tort has basically put most of the insurance companies either out of business or out of the state.
Now on Social Security and much of your response, I see you are taking the standard mantra of blame the dreaded Republicans. Well, since I'm a Libertarian I have a unbiased thought on both, considering I think there is no difference anymore between one or the other.

Yes, Social Security did work when it was first developed in 1935. But it was developed when the average life expectancy was 63 years old, today its 79.

But let's look at this wonderful government program

We want you to die so you don't collect as much
You pay 7.5% of your salary and your company pay's an additional 7.5%
Today, if your less than 40, you will never live to collect what you paid.
Today, no matter what you paid when you die your spouse gets a whopping $250.00 one time benefit. Wow! The libs always bark about minimum wage but the SS death benefit has not changed since 1935.

Think of it in a logical format. Kind of like your talking about insurance you can't afford due to cost of premium vs. cost of care.

Social Security: You pay 15% of your total income combined for your entire working life. Now, your in your 30's so by the time your 67 (note the crumbs did not increase the death benefit but have no issue constantly raising the age to make sure you get even less) you will not collect even what you paid, much less any interest.
Do you tell your children; Hey Jr. Now invest your money this way. Give me $100.00 per month and I will pay you back $78.00 and keep $22.00 in return.

And you say the government is not a profit center.

In closing, I can agree with some of your statement about government not running everything, I certainly don't believe in the private sector running everything.

This area as with most is what brings my Southern Blood to a boil when it comes to the 100+ year old argument of States Rights. Rember the War of Northern Aggression?

Public medical care in places like Vermont? It may work due to your population. Would it work in Georgia? Not in todays world. But it cannot work in either place as long as it is controlled by the hacks in Washington, DC. C'mon Mark, have you seen these clowns on both sides of the isle in CSPAN lately

Now, if Vermont, Georgia, Jersey, etc. could run their own share without federal interference, then things may be different. Georgia is having major issues with illegals. The state alone has at present estimated count, 200,000+ more illegals alone than the entire population of Vermont. We have counties that are being bankrupted by medical care alone due to illegals by order of the federal government receiving free medical care, while the law abiding public pays out the nose. If Georgia ran its own program, you would have a different story, however, the fed actually sent inspectors to the Southern Empire State to "order" the state to continue to provide free care or face "Federal Fines"

Mark, I'm with you on a few things. Something must be done. This current track we are on will only provide failure for us as a nation. I call it our slippery slope to slop that we have been on since the reigns of Lyndon B Johnson and every president since. As for this current Republicrat clown we are stuck with now, well, it's scary


Regards

[Georgia]

Question:

What is the overall view of Howard Dean, both as Vermont Governor and today????

[sevdie]

Well, this has certainly sparked up some interesting conversation. I found out more from this forum than any stats could have told me. I would like to know the answer to the above question too.

[Mark S.]

Georgia,

Two things: First of all, I'm not in Vermont (yet). May be moving there. May not. I'm in Washington State right now. Haven of a very silly form of modern liberalism. Don't much care for it myself.

Secondly, I think we've come the long way around to basic agreement. My own political leanings are much more distributivist than either capitalist or socialist. While I do VERY MUCH think health care ought to be wrenched from the control of for-profit corporations, I'm not sure that handing it over to the federal government is the best idea. As a distributivist, I do believe in areas of public service and the commons being in the hands of the people and thus accountable to the democratic process, but wherever possible, most control ought to be at the local level. Ideally, local within communities, then counties, then state, and finally federal. But whenver possible, most control should be at the local level.

Why? Because locals ought to have a say in their own fate and government. The federal government is simply too big to handle all that. For example, laws intended to help farmers might indeed be a great help to farmers in California, but that same law might put North Carolina farmers out of business.

So in terms of health care, yes I am very much in favor of it being handled by government, but that government ought to be local. Primarily local within communities, but larger issues might be handled by the state.

And by "health care" I do not mean liposuction, nose jobs, breat implants, hair weaves, etc. You're on your own there. But I do mean basic medical care. There's no excuse for a nation this prosperious having millions of children without basic health care needs. There's no excuse for cancer patients being denied treatment because it is "cost ineffective." Parents shouldn't have to choose between buying their child medicine and paying the electric bill. Not in this country. With our vast prosperity, there's no excuse for it.

[Lehi]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

There's no excuse for cancer patients being denied treatment because it is "cost ineffective." Parents shouldn't have to choose between buying their child medicine and paying the electric bill. Not in this country. With our vast prosperity, there's no excuse for it.

We're too busy providing free health care for Illegals; you certainly can't expect us to pay for our own citizens too!

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Question:

What is the overall view of Howard Dean, both as Vermont Governor and today????

What question are you asking here? Your may wish to recast your sentence for clarity.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by Lehi

We're too busy providing free health care for Illegals; you certainly can't expect us to pay for our own citizens too!

There's a real easy solution for the "illegal immigration problem" today: Pass a law that says that any business that knowingly hires illegal aliens gets severe legal penalties. Start out with fines at first, but if they do it again, start throwing CEOs in jail and revoking business licenses.

The reason illegal immigrants are flocking to this country is that businesses hire them in order to save labor costs. Remove that, and you've gone a long way to solving the problem.

[Lehi]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

There's a real easy solution for the "illegal immigration problem" today: Pass a law that says that any business that knowingly hires illegal aliens gets severe legal penalties. Start out with fines at first, but if they do it again, start throwing CEOs in jail and revoking business licenses.

The reason illegal immigrants are flocking to this country is that businesses hire them in order to save labor costs. Remove that, and you've gone a long way to solving the problem.

Sounds good to me! When are you running for Congress?