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Thread summary:

Seeking advice on moving to Vermont or taking job opportunity offered in Brooklyn, pros and cons of moving to Brooklyn, follow career opportunity or focus on Vermont

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Old 07-16-2007, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,907,956 times
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My plans to move to VT may have been derailed today.

I was offered a job in NYC (actually the South Bronx) that is a good professional and financial opportunity. Also, judging form the interview, I think I'll be working with nice people, who have values similar to mine. Only problem? You guessed it. It is not in Vermont.

I don't know if this is an opportunity I should take or a distraction I should reject.

Maybe both. Maybe I need to do this for a while and get disgusted with the long commute from Brooklyn to and from the Bronx. No scenery. No Brattleboro Food Co-op. Just the inside of a subway tunnel, ugly street scenes, little greenery and no stores that sell the kind of foods I could get in Vermont!

Of course, I don't have to stay there forever, but this is a career job with opportunities for professional and financial growth.

I have to do my own rumination job and also consult with friends, but I would appreciate comments from people on the forum. This is a difficult decision and I need all the help I can get.

Do I stay focused on Vermont or follow the money to the Bronx? Or, maybe the best option, do I work there for a while and, at the same time, prepare for my move?

No, I will not move to the Bronx, although there are a few nice areas there.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Western views of Mansfield/Camels Hump!
1,943 posts, read 3,239,013 times
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Hi Arel...

It seems that you and I have been running parallel with our plans for VT so I'm going to chime in!

I say go for it. Unless you had a very specific time frame for moving, there is no harm in taking a new job that can open other doors and opportunities for you and at the very least give you new contacts for the future. Also, getting some extra cash for the time being can't hurt.

Have you ever considered moving to upstate? Perhaps to Duchess or Orange counties? It seems that this would be a good compromise for the time being - you can live in a more rural area, with nice communities and amenities, and commute via the train (or car) to the Bronx to your new job. This would also allow you to spend time with friends and family in NYC...This way you have the best of both worlds!

I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. This seems like it would be a good thing for you, even if it's just for a short time. Congrats on the offer!
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,907,956 times
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Thanks. I think I will take the job. It offers a lot financially and professionally. The pay is higher there for the same job in Brookyn, because people don't want to go to the south Bronx!

Interestingly, in view of your belief that things happen for a reason, which I share: I learned of the job through a mass email from the director of my old training institute. Seems the Program director is a graduate of the program; she contacted the institute director for networking help in filling positions. I liked what I read, emailed her and sent my resume, and the next morning they called for an interview. I interviewed yesterday (Monday) and they want me. They see me as "a perfect fit", as they told a higher level administrator who interviewed me next. The job is mine to accept or decline. I really wasn't looking for the job. I just saw about it suddenly, when I returned from Vermont, actually, and I decided to investigate.

But if I take it, I will lose a lot of time in the commute, and I will also lose most of the flexibility of my current schedule. So, overall, it will be harder for me to visit Vermont, and harder for me to get the house fixed up in preparation for the move. And I also worry about not being able to check up on my diabetic cat during the day, as I can now, most of the time. And I also worry about being late in the morning! And when do I get to do other things besides working and commuting?

Well, I'm not the only one to deal with the problems of a long commute. I do have a cat sitter, who, hopefully, would be available when I need her, and I can always read on the train. I'm always complaining to myself about not reading enough.

It's a good idea about moving to Duchess or Orange County. The only thing is that if I move I want to put down roots. I don't want to make a termporary move upstate, and then move to Vermont. Well, I suppose I could move to Westchester - I've lived there before and I know people there. If I lived there, I'd knock about 1 1/2 to hours off the trip!

Thanks for your encouraging post. If I take the job, I will be able to work on my attachment to NYC and Brooklyn (not the Bronx, though), and I will have time to prepare more thoroughly for the move to Vermont, assuming it's not permanently derailed.
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Midwest
4,281 posts, read 7,156,159 times
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As they say, everything happens for a reason.
As the comedian said, when you get to a fork in the road, take it.

My take, coming from my personal bias of working out the details of a northern New England relocation as soon as practical, would be to move sooner rather than later.
For some reason a debate I was having in grad school comes to mind. I was talking with one of the profs, and was wondering about doing the program in three years vs. two. Less stress financially, academically, etc., and what's a year?
He urged me to go two years full time. Which I did.
I graduated seven months before I got deployed for Desert Storm, which would have meant not one but two years extra. As it was, it took a good deal of extra time to get licensed at the higher level because of the rhythm of things getting upset.
Relocating is a big deal, and a big risk. More money, nicer people, better job, are all good reasons to stay put and good excuses to delay the day of reckoning.
But the great opportunity also delays settling in, making connections, getting the lay of the land, and going where you state you want to go.

You mention the new job could "permanently derail" the Vermont move.
Perhaps this is the opportunity to decide if you really want to leave the city and all that means.

Again, my own bias. As a military family, we've moved five or six times in the last 10 years. Moving still sucks, but I look forward to another move because it will put us closer to where we want to be, and sooner rather than later.
Life is short. There are no guaranatees.
But the sooner we get to what we consider a more benign, independent environment, the better for many reasons.
Good luck and godspeed, whichever course you choose.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,907,956 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
As they say, everything happens for a reason.
As the comedian said, when you get to a fork in the road, take it.

My take, coming from my personal bias of working out the details of a northern New England relocation as soon as practical, would be to move sooner rather than later.
For some reason a debate I was having in grad school comes to mind. I was talking with one of the profs, and was wondering about doing the program in three years vs. two. Less stress financially, academically, etc., and what's a year?
He urged me to go two years full time. Which I did.
I graduated seven months before I got deployed for Desert Storm, which would have meant not one but two years extra. As it was, it took a good deal of extra time to get licensed at the higher level because of the rhythm of things getting upset.
Relocating is a big deal, and a big risk. More money, nicer people, better job, are all good reasons to stay put and good excuses to delay the day of reckoning.
But the great opportunity also delays settling in, making connections, getting the lay of the land, and going where you state you want to go.

You mention the new job could "permanently derail" the Vermont move.
Perhaps this is the opportunity to decide if you really want to leave the city and all that means.

Again, my own bias. As a military family, we've moved five or six times in the last 10 years. Moving still sucks, but I look forward to another move because it will put us closer to where we want to be, and sooner rather than later.
Life is short. There are no guaranatees.
But the sooner we get to what we consider a more benign, independent environment, the better for many reasons.
Good luck and godspeed, whichever course you choose.
Yup, I've been thinking of this, too.

I've been sitting on the fence about moving. Some of the time, moving seems like the obvious choice to do, a no-brainer. I make lots of lists. It is the best move. Other times, I feel an attachment to NYC. The amenities (which I don't really use that much), the ocean, the familiar sights, the fact that it is home. When I visited Brattleboro last week, I felt a strong homing instinct when I drove back to NYC. But sometimes I'm there and I don't want to leave. I'm sure that having a diabetic cat boarded, and knowing he absolutely hates it and is miserable, plays a part in pulling me home.

I have read lots of posts that complain bitterly about the Vermont economy and the weather. I have wondered why Vermont is so sparsely populated, when it is supposed to be so special. But if I move up, I'll have a wanted professional skill that I can use in a job or independently, and I also plan to buy investment property. So I might have income comparable to what I got in NYC. Remember, those famous NYC incomes do not apply to social workers. Also, Brattleboro winters are not so bad. They are comparable to NYC winters.

I keep going back and forth.

If I take this job, and it turns out to be a mistake, I leave and make my move. If I move to Vermont and it turns out to be a mistake, I can't return to NYC so easily, and I certainly cannot return to my old house.

Maybe when I do make the move, my house will be worth more and I can make a bigger profit when I sell it. Conversely, something can happen, such as a natural or man-made disaster, which will make values plummet. I don't think you get insurance money if your loss is caused in a terrorist attack, as it is considered an act of war, so if your house is lost that way, your assests are simply gone.

Whatever, I think I will try the job, for the money, at least. If I stay about a year and a half, I will get vested in the union and get a pension, since I have union time from a previous job. If the commute gets to me I will leave. If I like the job, I will stay a while. Meanwhile, I can get the house ready for sale, e.g. finish decluttering, do painting and whatever repairs I can do. I will probably take just as long to leave if I don't take the job. At least if I take the job, I'll have money to do stuff. But I do hate the loss if my independence. I'll be a slave to the clock. And I dislike commuting on the subway. I can drive, but it's an expensive drive on congested highways. I roughly calculated the cost: Driving will cost about $2500 more in a year than taking the subway. And I can't read while driving, although I can get books on tape.

There is a probationary period in any job. It can be as long as 6 months. Probation goes both ways.

I do understand the idea of sooner rather than later, and I also understand the need to throughly evaluate how I feel about leaving the city "and all that means". What it means is not just the city. It is home. Even when I lived in other places, it was still home. My house was there. Brattleboro does not yet feel like home. It still feels a little alien, even though it gets increasingly familiar with each visit. I have been told, though, that Brattleboro is like an "overseas state" of New York, just as Reunion Island is an overseas state of France. I suggested that Brattleboro is like Greenwich Village in the woods, and the l people I was with, in New Hampshire, agreed.

I also understand the "sooner rather than later" mentality. I tend to procrastinate and to shy from big risks.

I hope I don't let them know too late and end up losing the job because of my procrastination!

Last edited by arel; 07-18-2007 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:40 AM
 
Location: ~~In my mind~~
2,111 posts, read 6,340,055 times
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arel, all I can tell you is to follow your gut. I know it is a simple saying, but for me, it has proved to work. I can read your struggle of going back and fourth. Do I stay, do I go. If money is an issue then you might consider staying where you are and take the job. But to me, I hear that your heart is wanting you to move to Vermont. That is why I say, follow your gut. I swear it works. You know what is best for you. Good luck in whatever you decide.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,907,956 times
Reputation: 450
Thanks, Suzette.

Unfortunately I am not an empire builder in the decisiveness department.

I wonder if I will procrastinate so long on accepting the job that they will hire someone else.

My gut says two things. It says I don't want to commute to the Bronx and I am afraid of being in the South Bronx when it gets dark early in the winter. But it also says that I need the money now and that I can always move to Vermont a little later.

When I went for the interview, I was almost disappointed to discover that I liked the job. If I take the job, I'm afraid that I will like it. It's a job in a major hospital, in a clinic that does not marginalize social workers. There are wonderful union benefits and, since I worked at a union job before, I can get a pension if I stay a little more than a year. Not a big pension, unless I stay for decades, but it would pay for my real estate tax in Vermont!

Also, the concentrated child therapy work will improve my prospects for private practice in Vermont! And if I want to return to the NYC area, I would have contacts at a major hospital. Well, by that time I might be retired. I'm actually in my mid-50s now. Just turned 54. I feel, act and even look young, but in reality I am not. And time goes by no matter what I do. I't's not as if I am in my 20's or 30's and do not have to look at retirement, old age and mortality. But I still want to move to Vermont while I still have full use of my body.

The thing is, I don't think the time factor, in terms of moving to Vermont, makes too much of a difference. I have been researching Vermont for almost a year, and am still working on making contacts, etc. If I take the Bronx job, I'll have less time to do what I have to do to fix up the house, but I'll have the money to make repairs, etc., without struggling with debt payments. The repairs I want/need to make will up the value of the house by, perhaps, tens of thousands of dollars. Moreover, the delay will probably mean I can sell the house in a hotter real estate market, once the prices start rising again. Also, I live in NYC, where the slump has been minimal. And if I stay even 10 years, which is doubtful, I will be able to retire to Vermont.

I think it is a good move to take the job and at the same time prepare for my move to Vermont. After a little more than a year, I will be vested and good to go. Besides, if I hate it, or at least hate the commute and the neighborhood, that will further spur me to move.

If I end up loving the job, , well, I can decide whether to stay in Brooklyn or move to an area closer to it, like Westchester or a nice area in the Bronx . Or I may decide to just bite the bullet and move to Vermont, where there is, as Dwatted Wabbit says, "a more benign, independent environment". Also better food, in terms of quality. I have been fussing on these forums about bagels, but I can live without them, or make them on my own, or even have them shipped from New York! Pizza? Well, I like pizza, but I also like to stay away from saturated fat and white flour.

So I guess I have a win-win situation, even if it doesn't always feel like it. Like the job, or dislike it and move to Vermont. Meanwhile, I'll just have to visit on long weekends. My boss said she was flexible about time off, so I guess I can arrange some Fridays or Mondays off for weekends in Vermont. Also, she sometimes asks people to come in on Saturdays to clean up old charts, and repays people with money or time off. And she once commuted form the Bronx to Brooklyn, so she is sympathetic. If I regret taking the job, nothing is lost. I still have other work I can expand. If I like the job, nothing is lost. I can make a lot more money and also more procuctively use what time remains to me in New York. If I'm harmed by crime or terrorism. well, then something is cetainly lost, but who's to say I couldn't skid on a Vermont or New Hampshire road and end up in a river or lake? I've seen several places where that could happen and a trucker did get killed in Brattleboro when his truck went into the West River. And there are plenty of trees to hit, as well as other cars. Or a fisher cat or coyote could eat my dearly loved cats.

Ugh. I still don't want to work in the Bronx, but I feel this is an opportunity and I should do it, at least for now. If I'm wrong, I can correct course. Money talks! People make tremendous sacrifices to make money and meet their financial obligations. They commute long distances, and they endure jobs that they hate. I have met Chinese mothers of small children, whose husbands worked in Chinese restaurants hundreds of miles away. The husbands had to live there, as it was much too far to commute. I need to count my blessings, bite the bullet, and commute to the Bronx. I need to stop focusing on the negative - the commute, the neighborhood - and focus on the considerable benefits of the job, and the chance to better use the time I have left in NYC.

At least, for now.

The worst thing will be to pine for Vermont and not do anything about it. It's bad to pine for something you can't have, but it's also bad to pine for something you can have and not do what you need to do to have it.

Last edited by arel; 07-18-2007 at 07:15 AM..
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:12 AM
 
36 posts, read 97,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arel View Post
Unfortunately I am not an empire builder in the decisiveness department.
The worst thing will be to pine for Vermont and not do anything about it. It's bad to pine for something you can't have, but it's also bad to pine for something you can have and not do what you need to do to have it.
Arel, if you really aren't in the position to move right now (and don't have a VT job offer right now) I would take the great job, and remember it is not forever. It is a means of getting to your goal. It is the ONLY practical alternative right now. Your other options:
1) moving to Vt now, broke and stressing out whether you'll get a job
OR
2) staying in the Bronx, hating life, in a job that will make you hate it just that much more.
At least this way, the great new job will give you the needed money and extra satisfaction you need to get through it. Keep a keychain-size mace in your coat pocket for the trip and laugh all the way to the bank as you get closer and closer to saying good-bye to that place for good.
I know it is frustrating to wait any longer, but this way, you'll do it the right way. I'm betting you won't change your mind either. A few years ago, I got a job where I actually CRIED because I couldn't believe my good fortune in getting it! Eventually, the rose-colored glass will almost always fade (which in my case they did in a MAJOR way) causing you to get out. You will be doing so with a pocket full of change from your experience, so just be sure that saving for it is your priority...make up a weekly or biweekly bill for it of you have to....or better yet get a set amount automatically deducted from your pay and put into a savings account you can't easily access.
GOOD LUCK!

PS---as for the indecisiveness...no one takes that crown away from ME, lol
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,907,956 times
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Thanks for your helpful and encouraging post.

BTW, I live in Brooklyn, not the Bronx. I actually live in a nice area.

I don't have a job offer in Vermont, but I did send my resume to an agency and they were very interested in meeting me when I move up. Obviously, I can't apply for a job there now, as I explained, but I did want to make contact.

I don't hate my current jobs. I just need more money. And I also feel the need to be more involved in my work than just doing it and going home.

I thnk you are right. Taking the job is the only practical alternative right now. It is also good to save for moving expenses. But a big thing is fixing up the house for sale, and for my own pleasure in the house.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:53 AM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,422,643 times
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The Bronx. I used to go to an indoor target range up in the Pelham Bay area. I do remember some nice neighborhoods in parts of the Bronx, but assume that nice now means excessive $$$ to be able to call it home. The South Bronx on the other hand is another story. I know that some rebuilding has taken place to replace the burned out shells of the old five to six story buildings, but the area still leaves a lot to be desired. Was in the area four years ago. The destruction of the neighborhoods back 30 to 40 years ago was literally like being in a war zone. I remember seeing fires off of the Major Deegan Expressway and on one evening in July '69 we broke down on that highway at dusk and thank god for the cops who arrived quickly and got us the hell out of there.
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