[arctichomesteader]

Federal researchers declare eastern cougar extinct - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/ap_on_sc/us_eastern_cougar - broken link)

I think the feds are in for a big surprise, but we'll see. The Eastern and Western ones are the same so I don't put much value in this declaration.

[harry chickpea]

From the article: (fair use critique under copyright law)

"The wildlife service treated the eastern cougar as a distinct subspecies, even though some biologists now believe it is genetically the same as its western brethren, which is increasing in number and extending its range. Some experts believe that mountain lions will eventually make their way back East."

I agree that it really is just one species, and think having it on the endangered species list was wrong in the first place.

"The loss of a top-level predator like the cougar has had ecological consequences, including an explosion in the deer population and a corresponding decline in the health of Eastern forests."

This is pure fantasy. Do you know how many cougars it would take to significantly impact the deer population even if they only ate deer? Cougars would have to be almost as common as skunks.

"Our ecosystems are collapsing up and down the East Coast, and they're collapsing because we have too many white-tailed deer," said Spatz. "Our forests are not being permitted to regenerate."

The fallacies of the "Leave Bambi in peace" mindset have been known for years by foresters, hunters, and even people who walk through woods and see deer damage. Deer herd management through hunting and active culling is just too politically charged for it to be done effectively.

"Cougars and wolves, he said, would thin the deer herd through direct predation while also acting as 'natural shepherds,' forcing deer to become more vigilant and 'stop browsing like cattle.'"

That has got to be one of the stupidest statements of the week. Deer already ARE vigilant. What he is seeing is that deer have been de-sensitized to humans in some cases because they can browse without undue fear. Bring back cougars and wolves and Fluffy and Mopsy and Fido are just as likely to be on the menu, and eventually a rogue animal will see small humans as tasty snacks. Take a good look at some of the reports from the west.

"Spatz's group would like the federal government to reintroduce cougars and wolves to the eastern United States, though he acknowledged any such plan would come up against fierce resistance. "

I'm glad there are enough sensible people still around that fierce resistance to such idiocy is possible. Our ancestors done good on making the eastern U.S. safe for humans. If cougars and wolves are re-introduced, I nominate Washington D.C. as the drop off point.

[arctichomesteader]

I'd like to see both wolves and catamounts back in VT in healthy numbers. I think the wolf fiasco out West killed any chances of re-introduction, but they are moving back in on their own.

They do need to be hunted to some degree to keep them afraid of people; a lack of hunting in several Western states (i.e., California), has made the big cats lose their fear of humans, which is why they've had more attacks in recent years.

[Beenaroundabit]

Maybe the Catamount they're referring to as now being officially extinct are more akin to the mounted cat that used to reside in the museum in Montpelier. That thing is a LOT bigger than most of the cats they have out west or in the Midwest. There are a few big ones, yes; but the majority aren't as large as I recall that one to be.

Can't speak to the U.S.' current big cat population, but as someone whose work involves wolves, almost all of the people I deal with seem to universally claim that wolves either "will" or "won't" cause X or Y. Both sides are equally out of touch and are speaking from personal opinion (and usually a great deal of passion) rather than direct experience.

Many hunters claim wolves will kill all the deer and many ranchers say they'll kill all of their livestock, so most in both groups want them completely eradicated. Same with the people who think wolves are going to snatch their babies every time they go camping. On the other side of the fence, many environmentalists say they should all be protected to the Nth degree, with no hunting and no management whatsoever, so that the wilderness can be just that: wilderness, just like it was 1,000 years ago.

What neither side understands is that wolves and other predators provide balance. They were part of a landscape that worked before we got here (and will likely be here when we're gone). However, since another species has been introduced into that landscape on a major scale in the last few centuries (namely us), we've become the top predator and have pushed predators like wolves, cats, and grizzlies into the background as far as having a bigger ecological impact. That doesn't mean we don't need them, but it also doesn't mean we can have them in the same numbers/playing the same roles they traditionally did. For example, one recent lawsuit wants them protected until they are "restored to their traditional range across the U.S.", which is pretty ridiculous when you consider how impractical and improbable it would be to have wolves roaming "traditional" areas which have now become majorly-populated.

[harry chickpea]

Beenaroundabit, you expressed what I was attempting to convey much more eloquently. I have long ago lost patience with starry-eyed and fuzzy-minded extremists after repeated encounters, and go for the jugular just to stop the public insanity.

We have coyotes around us. They are not too serious a problem, except to folks wanting to raise free-range animals. They tend to clear out the dogs and cats that get dropped "in the country" so that they can have a "better" life after their owners are out of money or tired of them. I guess a few wolves wouldn't be too much of a problem in that mix, especially since many of us carry when wandering our property. I'm a bit leery of big cats though. They can be more bold.

[Fiddlehead]

I live in cougar country in Oregon. I cannot say what they would do if reintroducted, or of they just recolonize, the East. I will say, I routinely see severed deer legs in and around our town, and many people have seen them. It is a female, and her offspring. I would guess they kill at least one a week, probably several. Never an attack on a person. We still have plenty of deer around, especially at night, because, I believe they have learned it is safer to munch on lawns in town than to take their chances in the woods.

One fellow had some nubian goats killed at the edge of town, but so far the cats have had little need to abandon their deer prey. I will say that cougars are pretty good at what they do, and if they have enough to eat, the know better than to munch people. Not to say they would not want to pick off a young child. Most wouldn't, but some undoubtedly would.