U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Vermont
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:13 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
I agree. Personal responsibility of one's health is paramount, but there is nothing you can do if you're in 100% fantastic shape and you go out and get in an auto accident because someone ran a red light and neither of you have health insurance ( or being in great physical shape and contact something like cancer only because it ran in your family. )

Did any country in Europe put up a vote to remove heating utilities for the poor and elderly during the winter like the repubs did just this week? I don't think so.

When we are the richest country in the world ( yes, I'll admit we do have the best medical care--for those only that can afford it ) yet our health care system is rated at #37 ( but the lowest for any first-class nation ) that is saying something......
Actually, the elderly are freezing to death in Europe. Here's an example from Northern Ireland/UK: Elderly 'can't afford to heat home' - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
723 posts, read 1,093,836 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Just what we need, welfare refugees.

You don't live anywhere near Vermont and know nothing about this state. This state has no jobs to support a mass migration, and our environmental laws block large-scale development. Oh, and we're already one of the most expensive states to live in, despite having among the lowest populations...
We already have welfare refugees running this country--GE, Bank of America, ExxonMobil, Boeing, etc, but anyway......

If there were a mass migration to the state, the state will CERTAINLY find ways to allow development--especially in todays economic conditions; which will cause other states to take note so they can gain the business and revenue that VT would be taking in. It happens in the greenest of areas, including here in Oregon--I don't need to live in Vermont to know that.

Did you see the COL and population of AK, CT, RI and HI ( all smaller than VT ) ? Alaska is the most "socialized" state in the country--Alaska receives more government services than any state in the union, and their COL is still very expensive!! Then when property taxes come into the discussion, nothing tops Oregon in cost other than Hawaii. CA and WA are close but not quite.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
723 posts, read 1,093,836 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Actually, the elderly are freezing to death in Europe. Here's an example from Northern Ireland/UK: Elderly 'can't afford to heat home' - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
I agree, that's terrible isn't it? The problem is now we can't say it "happens in other countries" anymore--and the richest country to boot!

Therein lies another issue though--at least in Ireland and the UK, if they get sick from their freezing homes, they can see a doc without losing their roof and other quality of life that those here in the states can't do. People in Ireland and the UK have health care--it might not be as good as it should and may not be as good as it is in Canada, but they *still* have a basic necessity--something else that over 50 million taxpaying American's don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
723 posts, read 1,093,836 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by soreknees View Post
A lot of that is a result of the big name hospitals overcharging for procedures that are done as well for less money in community hospitals and because too much fraud has been found, ie. charging the state for gynecological exams for men.
LOL! wow! gynecological exams for men?
and here there are those that say the gov't can't run anything right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
We already have welfare refugees running this country--GE, Bank of America, ExxonMobil, Boeing, etc, but anyway......

If there were a mass migration to the state, the state will CERTAINLY find ways to allow development--especially in todays economic conditions; which will cause other states to take note so they can gain the business and revenue that VT would be taking in. It happens in the greenest of areas, including here in Oregon--I don't need to live in Vermont to know that.

Did you see the COL and population of AK, CT, RI and HI ( all smaller than VT ) ? Alaska is the most "socialized" state in the country--Alaska receives more government services than any state in the union, and their COL is still very expensive!! Then when property taxes come into the discussion, nothing tops Oregon in cost other than Hawaii. CA and WA are close but not quite.
This state doesn't want that sort of development. We don't want to be another NY or MA. I doubt people coming here for welfare will be spending much money anyways.

A state with considerable urban development could be expected to have a higher cost of living. It makes no sense for a rural state to be so expensive.

Most of the federal funding sent to Alaska is to federal agencies and the military (most of Alaska is federal land, and there is a considerable military presence), it's not going to Alaskans themselves.

But you've taken this thread way off topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:49 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
I agree, that's terrible isn't it? The problem is now we can't say it "happens in other countries" anymore--and the richest country to boot!

Therein lies another issue though--at least in Ireland and the UK, if they get sick from their freezing homes, they can see a doc without losing their roof and other quality of life that those here in the states can't do. People in Ireland and the UK have health care--it might not be as good as it should and may not be as good as it is in Canada, but they *still* have a basic necessity--something else that over 50 million taxpaying American's don't.
What in the world are you trying to say here? Are you just twisting things to say the exact opposite of what they say?

You said above governments in Europe weren't voting to let their elderly freeze, I just showed they have. So, your argument is, that's okay, because a doctor will be available to determine their cause of death, or amputate frozen limbs off?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
723 posts, read 1,093,836 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
This state doesn't want that sort of development. We don't want to be another NY or MA. I doubt people coming here for welfare will be spending much money anyways.

A state with considerable urban development could be expected to have a higher cost of living. It makes no sense for a rural state to be so expensive.

Most of the federal funding sent to Alaska is to federal agencies and the military (most of Alaska is federal land, and there is a considerable military presence), it's not going to Alaskans themselves.

But you've taken this thread way off topic.
No, just trying to point out that a rural state or rural area shouldn't be grounds as to why a single health-care payer law wouldn't work. If the state was so far in the red ( like CA ) than I would be more opposed to it, but still, we're talking about people's lives here. There are other services a state could "cut" or reduce spending on, that isn't affecting thousands of its taxpaying citizens--something no other state is making any real attempt at.

It won't surprise me if it goes down, because once the governor signs it into law, you can bet the corporations and insurance companies will be throwing lawsuits after lawsuits against it ( God, they're good at that! ) and it'll end up taking years before a decision is finalized on it.

But, I know I speak for millions when I say, "at least for now, there is a chance it just might happen!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
723 posts, read 1,093,836 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
What in the world are you trying to say here? Are you just twisting things to say the exact opposite of what they say?

You said above governments in Europe weren't voting to let their elderly freeze, I just showed they have. So, your argument is, that's okay, because a doctor will be available to determine their cause of death, or amputate frozen limbs off?
No, I was meaning to refer that is where we're heading here in the US--elderly freezing to death or risking frostbite in their own homes, and this comes at the hand solely, of a republican leadership ( Boehner and McConnell. )

It's bad enough to have no heat in your home--which yes, causes pneumonia among a few other cold-related ailments, but throwing that in with the elderly who have other undiagnosed ( because of no health insurance ) diseases such as cancer, diabetes, kidney infections, etc and the situation is MUCH more dire!

That is also why I said it is "terrible, isn't it?" because that is the path we're heading down, which will be compounded by millions without proper medical care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,056,149 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
If a physician didn't accept a state-wide health care option, than that is a not a single-payer or universal health care system, or anything even close to it. Under a gov't ran health care system, the physicians would automatically become employees of the government. Not the nurses or aides, etc but the practicing physicians. They would HAVE to accept all patients who came in that are covered under a single-payer type of plan, and no physician could opt out of it.

Also, while I know there are some out there, any doctor that is in medicine, mainly for the money, are in it for the wrong reasons; and therefore have no business being it in to begin with. Not saying they shouldn't be paid for their years of schooling and hard work they've put in, but any doctor who says they would abandon a place just because all citizens in the state would be covered, is no doctor that is for sure.
I don't think you understand the plan that is under consideration. The plan would essentially eliminate the Catamount Health plan and expand Medicaid. The state is not adopting a statewide health plan per say. Doctors and healthcare workers are and will remain private. We will not be employed by the state, nor do they even want to go down that road. The Catamount plan while less expensive than private insurance is still costly. This is information from the state: Due to the relatively liberal Catamount eligibility requirements in the proposed Medicaid VHAP Expanded program, it is likely that significant numbers of additional Vermonters will enroll in the Medicaid program based on the new lower premiums due to the below cost physician reimbursement and the increase of the deductible from $500 to $1,200. The current MVP Catamount premium is $527.00 per month and the monthly premium for a comparable private insurance plan is $640. The proposed Medicaid premium for the same population would be $356.70 representing a 32.4 percent premium reduction from Catamount and a 44.2 percent premium reduction from the health insurance plans available to small businesses.
If you have to pay a monthly premium and you have a deductible, it's not free.
Doctors do not go into healthcare for the money. The majority don't anyway, but they spend huge amounts of money to go through 4 years of college, then 4 years of medical school, and then another 4-7 years of residency. You can tack on another few years if they go through a fellowship. That is well over half a million in education if not much more. They deserve every penney they make. Just as you and I have bills to pay, so do physicians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,056,149 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar0201 View Post
It's bad enough to have no heat in your home--which yes, causes pneumonia among a few other cold-related ailments, but throwing that in with the elderly who have other undiagnosed ( because of no health insurance ) diseases such as cancer, diabetes, kidney infections, etc and the situation is MUCH more dire!
You do not catch pneumonia by not dressing properly for cold weather, being cold, or by being caught in the rain. These are old wives tales. Your risk of catching pneumonia is determined by the specific bacteria, virus, fungus, the number of organisms you inhale, and your body's ability to fight infections.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Vermont
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:19 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top