[flu189]

Originally Posted by arel

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Did you read early in my post when I said most of my experiences with cops have been positive?

It's not a good idea to make assumptions about where someone is coming from, especially if that someone is a perfect stranger.

But I am not getting into a flame war with you.

I don't think the intent to engage in a flame war was intended by the OP. Almost everyone cops meet and deal with are strangers and they only have a very short time to listen, decipher, analyze, and develop solutions, take action, or also dismiss an enormous amount of bogus claims and complaints. It really is very hard to understand unless you have worked in the field and to be very honest and frank cops don't expect the average citizen to understand this and this is why after a career the cumulative amount of baggage can make cops seem jaded. I know when I was on the job I always reminded myself that anyone calling the cops felt that their problem or issue was always of the utmost importance, but the reality is that in the scope of daily life of the city most of it was not. Again, it's one of those things in life that you really have to see and experience to believe.

[quickdraw]

Just do what the police tell you to do and you won't have a problem. If they tell you to get off PRIVATE property, just get off. They've got things to do and their wasted time would be better used pursuing criminals. Listening to them has always worked for me. They've got a stressful and dangerous job and I'm glad they're around because I wouldn't have the nerve to do what they do. They deserve respect and if you don't want to give it to them.....enjoy the zap.

[flu189]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Just do what the police tell you to do and you won't have a problem. If they tell you to get off PRIVATE property, just get off. They've got things to do and their wasted time would be better used pursuing criminals. Listening to them has always worked for me. They've got a stressful and dangerous job and I'm glad they're around because I wouldn't have the nerve to do what they do. They deserve respect and if you don't want to give it to them.....enjoy the zap.

It's basically what we called the "hello" test. If you are polite then the odds are in your favor that your contact with the police will be brief and not extremely uncomfortable. Of course so many people have an agenda and feel the need to debate and argue with officers. I used to love it when folks would pull the constitutional ammedment rights schtick. I would let them ramble on and pull out the pocket version and ask them to show me exactly what the heck they are talking about. One thing working in law enforcement you will find out in short order is that everybody is an authority and an expert.

[B. Wing]

Living in Putney, right next to Brattleboro, I've been watching this case closely. The area where the protesters were was a big field. No homes or businesses were obstructed, but the fact remains that they were on private property without permission. They were there because there were rumors (and they were only rumors; sucks that this happened to them, especially when they were getting nothing done) that the owners of the property were planning to build a big truck stop there. So a bunch of people went to the field, planted some flowers, and then brought out some 55 gallon drums. The drums had cement and rebar in them; the protesters inserted their arms into the drums, through the rebar, and handcuffed themselves together. When police responded (I don't know who called them or why they showed up initially) most of the protesters backed down, unlocked, and left. But two people, a dude and a chick, refused to unlock themselves. Remember, they are obstructing nothing so there is no urgent need to get them off the property using any means.
The police had plenty of time to think of a different way to get these folks off the property; they could have called a supervisor for advice, obtained bolt cutters, etc. (There was a Home Depot less than 400 yards away). The incident is on tape, and it shows the hippies being polite, respectful, but firm. They could not be a danger to anyone, even themselves. Yet the officers, in their retarded reasoning, saw this situation as dangerous and began discharging their tasers at the two. The woman gave up pretty quickly; the dude held out longer and they just kept hammering on him. When they carried him away, the film shows him smiling, even after that intense pain he was treated to. Why is he smiling? Because he expected to simply show up for a protest, get arrested, get released, and fight the criminal charges he was expecting to face for trespassing. Instead, these meat heads show up and give him grounds for a great civil lawsuit. The internal affairs and AG investigation chastises the officers for acting incorrectly and heavy handidly. The AG said he was shocked, and if he says that, there's a big problem. The AG will usually do everything he can to help police accused of overreaching, but such a flagrant and stinky case as this one makes all defenders run for the hills. The judge is trying to determine right now if the cops should have "qualified immunity" from lawsuit. When he makes his ruling, I'll bet ya anything he'll allow the suit to proceed.

[mustmove]

So the hippies were looking for a lawsuit. Same modus operandi as the Westboro Baptist Church. Brattleboro's protest class should be so proud.

[Asta]

From what I understand, the day before the tasing incident, the police had stopped at about 1:00 pm and had given the protesters until 4:00 to vacate the premises, at the request of the landowner. They also informed the protesters that the landowner had stated that there were no plans to develop the site, and that no plans or permit applications had even been filed with the Town. When the police returned at 4:00 pm the protesters were still there, so they once again conferred with the landowner, and the landowner gave the protesters a deadline of 7:00 am the following morning to vacate the property and asked the police to enforce that deadline. The next day when the police returned to the site at 7:00 am, the two remaining protesters refused to vacate and secured themselves to the barrel filled with concrete. They were informed by the police that they were under arrest for unlawful trespass, and that they were actively resisting arrest by chaining themselves to the concrete-filled barrel, and that they would be forcefully removed from the premises if they did not leave under their own free will.

I also understand that the police wanted to get those folks off the property that morning, as it had stopped raining and they thought that with the weather no longer being a deterrent, and with word having spread about what was going on, the situation could possibly escalate with more people getting involved. So I can understand the situation from both the protesters' and law enforcement's point of view.

[flu189]

The protesters had an agenda and followed through for the attention. The cops were very passive giving them an opportunity to get their fame and message across and then they chose to force an escalation, namely the officers having to enforce the law and orders to vacate. If tasers were not used then other physical compliance means would have been which would have generated just as much of a howl. Having walked in the boots as a LEO I can tell you with virtual 99% certainty that the officers that had to deal with this situation would rather have been elsewhere, but they did not have the choice. I don't envy the position they were placed in and have numerous unpleasant memories myself of experiences dealing with incident hogs and use of force baiters.

[B. Wing]

I'm all for property rights and I hear you about the LEO viewpoint. But check this: the police played right into the protester's hands. I assume the law enforcement jobs out there are similar to many other jobs in one key way. That is C.Y.A. baby and it means cover your ass for those of you that don't know. Every professional in every field knows that armchair dummies are gonna critique everything afterwards. Why give them the ammo, especially here in liberal VT? Had these cops done everything the same except cut the chains with bolt cutters instead of tasing, even most of the ultra-liberal citizens would have backed the police. Instead, the Attorney General is treating these cops as persona non grata not because of his delicate constitution but because they did not cover their dumb asses and therefore they offered him no politically expedient way to help them out. I am not a VT native and there is alot I love about this state but one thing I hate is the large amount of poor, non-working scroungers who many call hippies. They want everything and of course, they think they deserve it. They are ignorant of just about everything but they think they know it all. These people are easily relegated to the back burner by smart industrious people because they are pretty easy to put off. Then along comes Jesus Christ in a police uniform and gives them a good lawsuit so they can continue their slothful ways. I don't care about right or wrong in these types of incidences so much, I just get very disappointed when CYA is not employed. Those who cover their ass produce a better product, no matter what the profession.

[arctichomesteader]

State v. Carlton.

[ex-springfielder]

Hopefully the judge will throw out the suit and the protesters will be left with nothing but lawyers bills. If it took several jolts with the taser the fools must have enjoyed the experience. Every state has it's share of people who try to force their will on others, too many are politicians but Vermont seems to be the epicenter for liberalism and socialism now.