[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Don't lose what makes Vermont, Vermont. You, along with West Virginia, the Dakota's, and Alaska are about the only thing left with you own identity.

Preach it, brother.

Keep out the Wal-Marts and big box stores. They are killing this country's economy.

A few years ago, someone published a list of most endangered historic places. Might have been the National Geographic Society. Might have even been the government. I can't remember for sure. Anyway, among the many sites throughout the list, the ENTIRE STATE of Vermont was listed. Why? Because of the invasion of Wal-Mart and other big box stores.

Keep fighting them. It's not too late to win. Keep those corporate vampires out of your communities!

[vter]

I gotta tell you...the one thing that native Vermonters hate most is people moving here from out of state and telling us/them how to live.
I don't like Wal-Mart either...BUT...lets face it. The average working Vermonter cannot afford to shop in the cute little mom & pop shops. Vermont has very strict land use laws at the state and local level to ensure that sprawing type development does not get out of hand. So, if ya'll move here and don't like Wal-Mart, don't shop there. But don't tell your neighbor that they shouldnt.
There is a huge demand for Target in the Burlington area. We'll have one in the next few years, you can count on it.

[chaz longue]

I'm a Costco man myself.

I get to Sprawl-Mart about once a year.

I can't wait for a Target. I've only been on one so far, but I was very impressed with it.

[Georgia]

Originally Posted by vter

I gotta tell you...the one thing that native Vermonters hate most is people moving here from out of state and telling us/them how to live.
I don't like Wal-Mart either...BUT...lets face it. The average working Vermonter cannot afford to shop in the cute little mom & pop shops. Vermont has very strict land use laws at the state and local level to ensure that sprawing type development does not get out of hand. So, if ya'll move here and don't like Wal-Mart, don't shop there. But don't tell your neighbor that they shouldnt.
There is a huge demand for Target in the Burlington area. We'll have one in the next few years, you can count on it.

Did not mean to offend Vter. You think Vermonter's are touchy about people tellin them how to live, try coming down South.

I'm a West Virginia native myself and have lived in many places. Here in the South we had the same vision, poor folk havin a place to shop. Well we got it alright. Costco, Wal Mart, Sam's Club, Target, and just about every other dad burned place you can think of.

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Costco's or Sam's, but the others are like guppies in a fish tank. Monday you have one and by Friday you have 40. Move forward about 5 years you have a good shopping choice.
Wal Mart, Target, and............. Wal Mart and Target. Mom and Pop are gone, corner stores gone, C-stores gone, and the little pubs that supported Mom and Pop? Gone. Then Walget's sales stop. Yeah, still a little cheaper but not as they used to be. Besides, all they sell is 99% Communist made crap.

And one last thing, granted it's cold up in your parts, but you will find many other changes to that seem to follow these places into your towns and it ain't all peaches and cream.

Not tellin ya how to live, just what the heck happened to my neck of the woods. If Cher's song could only be true...... If I could turn back time....

Good Luck Vter, wish you the best.
Just love your state and would hate to see the Great Green Mountain state get the same disease that has infested Georgia.

[vter]

No offense taken...it's just that lots of folks who want to move here only seem to see the beauty of the state and our laid back nature, but don't seem to see the other side - the poverty, drug/alcohol problems etc.
But...like I said, the majority of towns have great local control over land use as well as Vermont's ACT 250 (google it if interested). After college I left Vermont "for greener pastures" like most VT kids, but found myself back after 6 years. Couldnt stand the traffic, blight, etc. of the city was in.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by vter

I gotta tell you...the one thing that native Vermonters hate most is people moving here from out of state and telling us/them how to live.
I don't like Wal-Mart either...BUT...lets face it. The average working Vermonter cannot afford to shop in the cute little mom & pop shops.

I sympathize, and I apologize if I touched a nerve with you.

I grew up in a small town that Wal-Mart has just about killed. Folks who used to run their own businesses either moved away or now scrape by on Wal-Mart salaries. Homeowners are now renters. Doctors are moving out of the area because no one in town can afford health care anymore. Wal-Mart helps their employees sign up for welfare and medicaid, so local doctors are forced to move since everyone is going to the government-run clinic. Poverty is setting in and crime is on the rise.

I completely sympathize with locals on a limited budget who need to make that dollar stretch as far as they can. But it really is like feeding a vampire. Wal-Mart will cut their costs and take your money, but your money isn't going back into your community. It's being shipped out to open new Wal-Marts in other towns and going into the pockets of people who are already very wealthy.

If locals have no choice but to accept a Wal-Mart moving in, then at the very least they must insist that their local City Council and selectman tax that Wal-Monster out the nose. All too often Wal-Mart bribes local communities, saying they'll only move in under condition of huge tax breaks, waiving of environmental regulations, or even communities footing the bill for construction. It's beyond unethical. It's evil.

Sorry if I came across a bit strong, but I've seen Wal-Mart destroy communities. I don't want to watch it happen anymore. Not in Vermont or anywhere else.

[chaz longue]

Mark S. hits the nail right on the head again.

Well said, my friend.

Now, a Trader Joe's....that's another story!

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by vter

No offense taken...it's just that lots of folks who want to move here only seem to see the beauty of the state and our laid back nature, but don't seem to see the other side - the poverty, drug/alcohol problems etc.
But...like I said, the majority of towns have great local control over land use as well as Vermont's ACT 250 (google it if interested). After college I left Vermont "for greener pastures" like most VT kids, but found myself back after 6 years. Couldnt stand the traffic, blight, etc. of the city was in.

This is my first post on the Vermont forum. I have so many questions. I hope to relocate my family around the end of this year when I get my master's degree. Vermont is very high on our list. We have been looking longingly at the Bennington and Brattleboro areas. But the Champlain region is also breathtaking. Worried about finding a job and affordable housing though.

So, how bad is the poverty in Vermont, and the drug issue? I'm assuming you mean meth, which seems to be a blight across the entire nation anymore.

As for poverty, it seems less acute in Vermont than in Maine or W. Virginia or some other places we've looked at. But that is just from online research, not experience.

We have young children and would like to keep them away from that as much as possible, but I don't think anyplace is safe. There's no Mayberry anymore.

Your state is incredibly beautiful though. I really hope we might be able to make our way there. Stay tuned for more questions!

[vter]

Poverty - I couldnt tell you how "bad" it is...just there I know many folks who have a hard time making ends meet. Housing is super expensive compared to incomes..I know quite a few people that have second jobs to pay the bills.

Drugs - They're everywhere. Herion seems to be the problem as far as I can tell from news reports (don't know firsthand!). But like you said, drugs are everywhere.

As far as where to locate....what kinds of jobs are you looking for? The Burlington area has the highest concentration of business/health etc followed by White River Junction/Lebanon, NH. Bennington and Brattleboro are nice, but keep in mind that they are fairly small towns -approx 15k each.

[killington city]

The main advantage to Rutland is the amount of house you can get for the money. 200-250K will get you a mansion near Rutland's downtown- which has just been redone over the last decade - so don't just drive by. The theater, classic coffee shops and yes Wal Mart (but a classy one) are all downtown.

Finally, if you like to ski or hike, you'll save about half a million on housing cost compared to Killington - which is just 15 minutes away, plus get all the benefits of a country city.