[KoZmiC NinJa]

Both of you make good points....
Home is where the heart is. What you make of it.
Vermont has a lot of great stuff....people, quiet,
breathtaking postcard scenery....it comes at a price,
which everyone agrees on. Only when you get here will
you know if that price, or "quality of life" insurance, is
worth it to you.
Me, I like FL more than VT, which really surprisd even me.
But, the state I like the most is PA. Ive never seen a state
other than Cali that had such a range of diversity in a small
radius of miles. Worst state, SC or Del. ...uggghhh
Life is strange....You never know

[GypsySoul22]

Now you see (and don't take this the wrong way) I did not like Central PA. I lived there in 1994-95 and found everyone a bit strange (eventually I did get a job in the Spring with a lovely company but it was temporary). Most people viewed us like criminals because 'we were from NY' (an enormous state by the way--not just NYC). People were VERY racist I and my husband came across, to the point of rattling off the 'n' word (we're White by the way) whenever they could. I could not picture having children/raising them there.

Talk about 'low wages!' They expected you to hop at $6.50 an hour. $7 was princely to them.

Yes, it was very cheap compared to Long Island (our townhouse was $550 a month I think). But Harrisburg (we lived outside) was rundown and WORSE than any city (and I have been to NY/Boston/Philly/London) I'd ever seen. Twice someone tried to fence jewelery to us or approach us with 'drugs.'

So, like I said, your dream of PA is someone else's 'no thank you.'

[KoZmiC NinJa]

Yeah....central PA is called 'pennsyltucky' by most
people. I lived in three places in PA. My favorite was one
called WEst Chester right outside of Philly. You would
never get that stuff there. Very diverse. Its actually
a destination point now which has its good and bad.
But, you raise an intersting point....in Rutland, the "N"
word was used all the time. The locals who WERENT
predjudiced, still really thought 'colored' was the correct
term. So, that shows that mindset is everywhere. Im
a full blown, liberal, run naked through Brattleboro,
Drop out-tune in-turn on old hippy so you would think Id
fit into VT by the perception, but the reality is I encountered
some of the most backward mindset I ever have since 1972
in Georgia.

[Sporin]

We live in Windsor, 1 exit south of WRJ and are quite happy where. We were lucky to buy our house before the town boomed about 8 years ago so it was very affordable. Outside of $$Norwich/Hanover NH/Lebanon NH$$ there is still reasonably affordable real estate.

Still, my wife and I both work to make ends meet. It's is not "cheap" to live here but I also don't find it outrageously expensive either.

A nice plus of this area is that you can access all the jobs and shopping just across the river in NH. The Hanover/Lebanon/West Lebanon area is full of middle and lower income jobs. They won't make you rich but you can get work if you need it. All the stores and restaurants seem to be hiring all the time.

It's the high paying jobs that are harder to find but I think you could say that about any non-metropolitan area.

PS. I know it's not VT but I've been very impressed by the Keene NH area lately if you want to look a bit farther. Small town atmosphere with big town amenities. Good schools, jobs, reasonable real estate costs, nice people.

[arel]

Thanks for the comments about Keene. It's within commuting distance of Brattleboro, my target town. But I have been warned about the difficulty of negotiating Route 9 in the winter. I do not relish the thought of skidding into Spofford Lake .

Since I am researching a potential move to Vermont, I really do appreciate the honest negative posts. They may be discouraging, and even at times depressing, but they are worth their weight in gold.

Fortunately, I will have some money if I move up after selling my house in Brooklyn. So I will avoid financial disaster if I can't make ends meet. But using my "nest egg" can only be a very temporary solution. If I have to keep dipping into my savings and do not take appropriate action (including leaving Vermont, if necessary) then I will be courting financial disaster down the road. I can give myself a time period - somewhere between 6 months to 2 years - to see if things work out. Meanwhile, I can develop my Plan B, be it Burlington, Montpelier, Middlebury, Northampton, Keene, Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island (I doubt it, but I once lived there and have friends there, including my closest childhood friend), or even New York.

Another possibility is to rent my home in Brooklyn for that time, so I can return if I want to. I have pretty much rejected that option, for several reasons. One reason I want to move is to get rid of that house. It is much more house than I need and I would rather downsize and use the money to invest for retirement.

[GypsySoul22]

Thanks for your reply, Sporin. I appreciate your information & advice.
Arel, hang in there. Like I say, you have to do what's best for you in the end. Would it just be you moving alone or with a family?

[arel]

Right now, I'd be moving with 5 cats. So, basically I'd be moving by myself, but with some "family" responsibilities which can complicate things.

[goatwoodward]

Originally Posted by arel

What does doing with less mean? Obviously you can't cut back on food or utilities or insurance. And in Vermont you need a car.

In Vermont, what does doing without mean?

Are people obsessed with the struggle to survive?

Depends on where you are in Vermont and who you're trying to support on what salary. I do very nicely without a car because I live near downtown Burlington. Rent is a little higher - $440-550 for a nice townhouse on Hyde St, living with 3-4 other people, but it's not unreasonable. Assuming you are not already indebted, a single person could "survive" quite comfortably in Vermont on $25000, maybe less. Just cut out the Banana Republic and Gap, and switch to bargain clothes. Eat more veggies. Buy when there's a sale. That kind of thing. Living here doesn't have to be hard, just set limits/a budget & you'll be fine.

The kind of changes Vermonters make: Buy your books used online at half.com or amazon.com. Try to find furnishings cheap or free from Recycle North or Burlington Freecycle. Ask the community if an individual or small business will do work like painting or home repair for less than a quote you have from a larger business (sites like Front Porch Forum help with this). Go to the Farmer's Market or Vietnamese Markets for your produce in the summer. Cut back on your clothes budget.

For instance, I don't spend more than $5-10 on a shirt or $10-20 on pants - there are so few people that places like Old Navy* and Urban Outfitters regularly overstock and then have to hold massive sales, especially when the college kids aren't in town toward the middle of August and the beginning of January. You just have to note when things are less expensive and buy then; It's not a big hassle once you're used to it.

*Most places in Vermont, you will never need to "dress up." I still have 4-5 suits hanging in my closet that I've not worn, other than to initial interviews, since I got here.

[goatwoodward]

Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa

Gypsy....16.00 an hour ?!?!?!?
That is a DREAM SALARY in VT. !!!

Depends on where you live again, average salary in Burlington is $37,500. I'm single, but assuming I didn't have college debt, I could live on $25,000 quite easily. In Burlington, though, even the grocery store cashiers at City Market start at $9.50/hour.

[goatwoodward]

Originally Posted by GypsySoul22

Well $16 here is a joke, really, when your average home is $400,000. Rents are $1200 plus car insurance that easily runs you $250 a month and more..

I appreciate the candor on the board. I will keep researching.

You must be looking at the best places in town. Our average home in Burlington was $211,300 in 2005. Of course, if you want a large house in the heart of downtown, it will cost more, but there are affordable options. Try picketfencepreview.com or vtforsalebyowner.com