[lbkiel]

My husband has an opportunity to move with his company to the Vermont/NY area in the next year or so. We are seriously interested in that part of the country (even though we've never been!) and would love some feedback. This may get a bit wordy, but I will try to keep it brief.

We are in our early 40's with 3 kids (11,9 and 5). We have always lived in the St. Louis area and for the last 15 years, in a small farming community in Illinois just across the river from the "big city". We grew up in the city and moved over here to live a quieter life with acreage (currently own 13 acres). The town is about 9,000 people and we absolutely LOVE the smaller size, family-friendly close knit community feel. There is virtually NO crime and we never even lock our doors. We built our own house back in our 20's and heat the house with wood stoves. We love to garden and would like to add chickens to our "nest" as well. People would NOT be surprised at all if we told them we were moving to a place like Vermont...If only we could pick up and move our house! It seriously looks like it belongs in the mountains.

We can get to a nice regional grocery store in 5-10 minutes as well as a nice farm supply store. If we want a Target, Costco, Trader Joe's or mall, we have to drive to St. Louis and it's about 30 minutes away...This suits us just fine. I am a big-time foodie and adore the idea of being near local, organic food! From what I have read, it seems that this region is abundant in CSA's and organic produce, meats, local fares, etc. This alone is very exciting to me...to be with like-minded individuals. I still have to special request organic produce at my store and when I ask for them to carry agave nectar, they didn't even know what it was.

My husband's job would allow him to live anywhere from Syracuse across to Vermont...I am fascinated with Vermont, but in my searching, I also find some nice small towns in NY (Essex? Glens Falls?).

We spend our vacations on the big, clear beautiful lakes in the Southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas region of the Ozarks. They are hard to beat for clean water, beautiful hills and private coves for fishing and swimming...So we are VERY intrigued by Lake Champlain. But, I'm wondering is it too cold in the summer to swim or am I just naive about the region and weather?? Is the lake a "large boat only" lake? We have a small pontoon boat and pull our kids on a tube and swim freely off the side of the boat. If we could be within a short drive of the lake to enjoy all summer, we would be in HEAVEN! Of course, Missouri is also known for beautiful rivers and streams and we love to take advantage of floating and swimming on natural rivers also. We love to camp and hike but because of the oppressive heat here in the Midwest, we usually end up floating in a lake all day! I would love a milder summer for sure!

As I said, we heat our house with wood stoves (proud owners of 2 Vermont Castings wood stoves) and cutting wood is truly one of my husband's favorite things to do..so land in which to cut our own wood is a must! Even if we had to live in a more suburban area maybe closer to the lake and then have rustic property within say an hour or so drive? This is totally feasible where we currently live, but not sure about there.

Schools and activities are obviously a concern, but I also know that testing scores do NOT give you the entire picture. Also, affluent areas and transient communities tend to always have the "better" schools and I'm not sure this rings true everywhere? People from St. Louis think we live in the "sticks" and that our kids are going to a one-room school house! (We have 250 kids in Kindergarten this year!) I believe that the "best" schools aren't always what look best on paper. My kids are getting a good education and better yet, the small-town pride and school/community spirit is pretty cool here. I am more concerned about the parent and community spirit and involvement in the schools....Oh, and youth sports, dance schools?

I am a children's yoga teacher and own my own business. I may or may not pursue this if we move...any info on yoga in the area would be great. Just doing a search, it looks like there is a thriving yoga community in the Burlington and surrounding areas. I may go to work in a "conventional" way and pursue something in the natural foods/products industry...sales and marketing perhaps. Not sure and not worried about it at this point.

SNOW!!! I love the idea of more snow. It's pretty lame how much snow we get here and I would LOVE having to get an AWD car!!! Bring it on. We know NOTHING of winter sports. Never ski, never snowmobile, never ice fish....nada! My kids would love the idea of sledding all winter and possibly playing ice hockey on a pond!! So, we are open and excited about the prospect....nuff said!

So, please send feedback, ideas, opinions, etc. Thanks in advance for your comments and advice.

[pauldorell]

You've asked so many questions that I won't even attempt to answer all of them, but I thought I'd comment because I recently moved to Vermont from Illinois. I'm in a different stage from you, retired, with grown kids (who actually have jobs and don't live at home!).

It sounds as if you're shooting for southern Vermont more than elsewhere, and I'm a little more familiar with Addison County, to the north. Here you'd fit in fine - most people like the outdoors, some raise chickens, and many of the lots are 10+ acres. If you like to shop, the pickings are slim unless you live near Burlington. But Middlebury has a great food co-op, and some organic food is sold even in chain supermarkets. Oil heating is very expensive, and most people seem to use wood stoves or wood pellet stoves to reduce costs. So far this winter I've heated mostly with wood, which is also expensive, but only about 60% as much as oil when you don't cut your own wood.

I think the vibe of self-sufficiency and social responsibility is great here. To me, Illinois is comparatively a waste land. I lived rurally in Dixon for 10 years and in the Chicago suburbs for 13 years and couldn't be happier here. The politics and environmentalism suit me fine. I don't think it would be comparable if you lived in New York.

For more information about Vermont, I suggest that you spend a few hours reading the City Data Vermont threads, because there's tons of information, some of which made me decide to move here. Then if you can break down you questions to a very few specific ones, you'll probably get more of a response. People here are really helpful.

[vter]

I'm glad you chimed in Pauldorrell as I thought you were from that neck of the woods.
Addison County is GREAT. As paul mentioned local and organic is very big around here. I agree the Middlebury Co-op is great as is the farmer's market. I read in the local paper that Addison County has the highest # of people per capita in Vermont who buy/eat locally sourced foods.
You can definitely swim and boat on Lake Champlain. There are lots of sail and motor boats on the lake and there lots of bays for your pontoon. The main lake can actually get pretty choppy-not sure how your boat manages in that type of water. If you do find you like the Middlebury area Lake Dunmore is a fantastic lake for swimming/boating. I spend a lot of time at the state park there in the summer.
Snow. Normally we have it by now. but we don't have any. UGH! its currently 36 and pouring rain at my house. Fun! But yes..you must like snow if you live here. Snowshoeing is a great winter outdoor activity that is inexpensive (once you buy the equipment that is). Downhill skiing is expensive but you can always rent the first time to see if you like it before you invest money in equipment. Ice skating and sledding are also affordable winter activities as once you have the equipment you can find places to do it for free or very cheaply (indoor ice rinks are usually 3-5ish for a session).
There are lots of yoga opportunities in my neck of the woods including kid yoga. Google some places and put some feelers out to see if anyone may need some help?
Are there any specific towns in Vermont you are looking at? That may help us give you some more detailed answers.

[lbkiel]

I guess I did ask a LOT, huh? You know, I haven't narrowed it down because we are in the beginning/ thinking stage. My husband would be replacing a co-worker who would be retiring in the next year or so. I was hoping to get a general idea of where to look and then narrow down a city based on our likes/dislikes and interests... LAKES!

I have been on this forum a lot and the general idea I get is that Vermont people are grouchy hermits who don't like outsiders, NO jobs to be found, everyone is poor and drives beat up cars...and I KNOW this can't be true, right? As I said in my original post, where we live NOW has a looked-down-upon-vibe from the folks in the "big city" and this community couldn't be farther from the stereo type. Needless to say, I have a very open mind. I also am considering that we are leaving the few family we have here in the Midwest and I would like to have neighbors that share some of our interests so we have people to hang out with...and fit in with! So, I will keep reading and I will re-post further along in the process or if I have a specific question.

Thanks for responding VTER and PAULDORELL.

If anyone can add to or suggest a starting point based on my original post, please do!!!

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by lbkiel

I have been on this forum a lot and the general idea I get is that Vermont people are grouchy hermits who don't like outsiders, NO jobs to be found, everyone is poor and drives beat up cars...and I KNOW this can't be true, right?

Oh, LOLOL!!! No, it's not true. There's plenty of that to be found, but just as much of other kinds of people, conditions, etc.

I've lived in Vermont since '97, and my spouse and I plan to live out our lives here. I have no human children, so I don't have answers to your family-related questions.

Whether it's right for you depends on so much -- all the questions you asked plus whether there's enough income/savings to live here, finding a decent and affordable place to live, and the experiences you have and people you meet once you're here. Needless to say, broad generalizations don't really describe a place.

[vter]

There is a lot of stereotyping that happens on message boards like this. Are there people who are grouchy to outsiders? Yes. But not everyone. Are there people who drive beat up cars? Yes. But not everyone. Are the really no jobs? Yes AND no. You catch my drift.
The job situation-there are jobs out there. Just not a lot. It really helps to have an "in" so to speak. Networking here is key. It is true that there a lot of folks who work 2 jobs.
It seems as though that there is a small middle class in Vermont. It seems as though you either have enough money to live the lifestyle you want or you don't. Yes, this is a generalization but I think its pretty accurate (folks tell me if you disagree).
Cars get REALLY beat up on our roads due to their condition (generally not great) and due to all the salt on our roads in the winter. Some people choose to drive "beat up cars" for this reason. Others can't afford a new car so they drive used. Lots of people drive "new" cars here as well.
Anyway...sounds like the job would require travel between Vermont and Syracuse? If thats the case I would definitely suggest western Vermont. Burlington and environs, Vergennes, Middlebury, or the Rutland area. I'm leaving out Bennington because there really are not any large lakes nearby, though Harriman Reservoir is not too far.
Burlington, Vergennes & Middlebury offer easy access to Lake Champlain, Middlebury for Lake Dunmore, and the Rutland area is also convenient to Dunmore, Lake Bomoseen, & Lake Hortonia.

[Sherylcatmom]

Yep, these generalizations seem generally true to me:

Originally Posted by vter

There is a lot of stereotyping that happens on message boards like this. Are there people who are grouchy to outsiders? Yes. But not everyone. Are there people who drive beat up cars? Yes. But not everyone. Are the really no jobs? Yes AND no. You catch my drift.
The job situation-there are jobs out there. Just not a lot. It really helps to have an "in" so to speak. Networking here is key. It is true that there a lot of folks who work 2 jobs.
It seems as though that there is a small middle class in Vermont. It seems as though you either have enough money to live the lifestyle you want or you don't. Yes, this is a generalization but I think its pretty accurate (folks tell me if you disagree).
Cars get REALLY beat up on our roads due to their condition (generally not great) and due to all the salt on our roads in the winter.

[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by lbkiel

I have been on this forum a lot and the general idea I get is that Vermont people are grouchy hermits who don't like outsiders, NO jobs to be found, everyone is poor and drives beat up cars...and I KNOW this can't be true, right?

The demographics of Vermont are a bit unusual. Many of the natives are old-fashioned, conservative New Englanders. This used to be a solid Republican state. Now that a lot of progressives have moved in the character has changed. I doubt Bernie Sanders or Howard Dean would have won elections in the 1950's. With so many progressives in the state, the locals are used to them, and I haven't run into any obnoxious rednecks. There's no large city here, so you don't get many city slickers either. In my experience, downstate Illinois is a lot more narrow-minded and and intolerant than anywhere here.

Originally Posted by lbkiel

As I said in my original post, where we live NOW has a looked-down-upon-vibe from the folks in the "big city" and this community couldn't be farther from the stereo type. Needless to say, I have a very open mind. I also am considering that we are leaving the few family we have here in the Midwest and I would like to have neighbors that share some of our interests so we have people to hang out with...and fit in with!

I've spent time in Missouri on a farm outside St. Louis, and can tell you that this is nothing like there. The demographics and climate are completely different. Rural Missouri and southern Illinois are solid Bible Belt zones, and Vermonters on the whole don't place as much emphasis on religion. We have cooler summers and winters. I don't know whether you'd miss it or not, but New Englanders aren't as warm and fuzzy as Southerners. They're matter-of-fact and helpful, but don't lay it on thick. I'm not a joiner at all, but feel comfortable in this county, and people seem to be living more authentic lives than I experienced in Illinois.

[lbkiel]

I have no idea how to quote a reply, but Paul, yes, I am with you completely. Thanks! I am very matter of fact and honest, almost to a point of being blunt. I appreciate this in people also. I traveled through upstate NY back when I worked and I was warned about the people being brash and abrasive. I loved them and appreciate an honest, to-the-point mentality. I also am not a joiner and frankly am more concerned about the people in Burlington being too concerned about being crunchy, cool characters...if that makes sense? I appreciate people who just "are themselves" without trying to be a version of "themselves"...again, hope that makes sense. AUTHENTIC, yes!

Okay, so this all helps! thanks!

[lbkiel]

I was just wondering...In a perfect move, we would live in a cute town area where the kids could possibly walk to school and I could walk to the market and of course, be near the lake and have a place to put in our boat and THEN, we would have a piece of property(wooded acreage) about an hour or so away that my husband could cut firewood and we could park our RV...maybe even hunt or just romp around through the woods. The house could be small and old. We actually love to renovate, remodel and find the beauty in all things old. Our current house is about 1500 SF with no basement and we're just fine. We spend more time outdoors anyway. Any ideas???