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Old 12-02-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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Hi, I've been reading the Vermont forum for sometime, and I read about the low paying jobs, high cost of living, the McMansions built as vacation homes with out-of-state money and the poor. I've done property searches for acreage with a small cabin, and have found several mostly used for get-aways.

My question is, are the poor living a Walden lifestyle of simplicity in Vermont, or are they truly poor, uneducated people? There is a difference, in my opinion.

I've been looking for a place to create my version of a Walden life. Vermont seems to be such a place. It would be great to hear opinions from people who live there.

Sincere thanks, Looking4Walden
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looking4Walden View Post
My question is, are the poor living a Walden lifestyle of simplicity in Vermont, or are they truly poor, uneducated people? There is a difference, in my opinion.

I think you're asking whether Vermonters living a simpler life is generally voluntary versus involuntary. I know of both.

People move here specifically to live in voluntary simplicity, or they grow up here and do it intentionally; such folks likely don't consider themselves "poor."

Many others, especially in the current economy, are simplifying involuntarily, or never had means to begin with, regardless of their education, and may wish their lives included more human cultural "complications."

If Vermont is the right place for you to live the way you want to, does it matter why others are doing it? Are you just curious?

Generalizing here, maybe inaccurately: I get the sense that some of the Western U.S. states, such as Montana, have lower cost of living and more people doing frontier-mentality rustic living. I doubt they use terms like voluntary simplicity.

Come to that, there are people living on the fringes all over. Urban freegans, survivalists, folks without fixed homes by choice or by lack of treatment and other options, etc.

Last edited by Sherylcatmom; 12-02-2011 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:33 AM
 
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I agree that I can live a simplified life anywhere. I would like to be with like minded people. The progressive, yet protective, attitude in Vermont is very appealing to me. Equally, the dedication to the environment, local economy and the people seem very inline with my own values. Admittedly, I've only visited, staying a week at a time, but the information I've read, the feeling I get when I'm there is it is a state that is more community minded and embraces relationships over bottom lines. I could be wrong, but Montana, and other western states, seem to have a survivalist mentality. That's very different than what I believe Vermont to be. Am I wrong?

Currently I live in Michigan. It's not a very progressive state and sadly very materialistic. The assembly line mentality is deeply ingrained in its communities with little care for the effects on nature. Michigan is beautiful, but bigger, more, faster is the mantra. Fear of change and a lack of identity outside of the auto industry is killing this state.

Thank you so much for sharing your opinion. It seems I may be on the right track.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looking4Walden View Post
I agree that I can live a simplified life anywhere. I would like to be with like minded people. The progressive, yet protective, attitude in Vermont is very appealing to me. Equally, the dedication to the environment, local economy and the people seem very inline with my own values. Admittedly, I've only visited, staying a week at a time, but the information I've read, the feeling I get when I'm there is it is a state that is more community minded and embraces relationships over bottom lines. I could be wrong, but Montana, and other western states, seem to have a survivalist mentality. That's very different than what I believe Vermont to be. Am I wrong?
Yeah, I think you're getting the vibe here. Living here feels way different from visiting, but inasmuch as generalizations can be useful, that's about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looking4Walden View Post
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion. It seems I may be on the right track.
You're welcome. And Vermont welcomes you. You just need the resources (money, land skills, tools, etc.) to be able to create your "Walden" and sustain yourself over the long term. As for neighborliness and community-mindedness, Vermont is a beacon, IMO.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:27 PM
 
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How different is it to live there verses visit?
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looking4Walden View Post
How different is it to live there verses visit?

Extremely, and this is true of everywhere. When you stop at a place for a short, defined period of time, you don't rely on it for your long-term needs. Also, you're not usually staying precisely where you'd be living. So when you move here, where exactly will you live? What will your neighbors, if any, be like? Will the resources you expected to have actually materialize? How will the reality stack up to your hopes?

You can and should prepare, but nothing can tell you what the reality of living here will be like except actually experiencing it.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:58 PM
 
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I know two families who've done it.

Family #1 moved here from Mass. about 15 years ago. They bought a single-wide trailer on a lovely piece of land. It had no running water. For about 8 years they used an outhouse and pumped water from a neighbor's stream.

Meanwhile, they built a log cabin by themselves from logs on their property. When the basement was completed they moved in, living like hobbits for the next few years, but at that point they had running water.

After a few years, they inherited enough money to finish the cabin. It has solar panels, geothermal heating, and a wood stove. They are hooked up to town electric as a backup. They have no cable, but they do have a landline phone.

The wife quit work a few years ago to have a few kids. She homeschools them, buys most of the family's possessions at garage sales, has a large garden and raises chickens. They live simply by choice and are very happy.

Family #2 are native Vermonters who are part of some fundamentalist church where women must obey their husbands. The husband bought a piece of land and told his wife they were going to build a home and live off the grid. She dutifully obeyed.

He and some friends built a modest little cape with no phone, running water and no electricity other than what they can get from a generator. The home is poorly insulated. I'll bet it's no better than Little House on the Prairie. Once, when one of their children was seriously injured, the woman had to run half a mile to a neighbor's house for help b/c she had no way to call 9-1-1.

The husband works. The woman homeschools their five kids. They have a garden, but barely have enough to eat. Recently, a mom's group I belong to went their recently to see if they could help out with anything and they found the woman and her kids huddled together and shivering b/c they only have four blankets. The husband won't allow the woman to enroll in Food Stamps, WIC or any other program that could help.

I guess their lifestyle is simple like Walden, but it's miserable.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
1,822 posts, read 5,120,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaMc46 View Post
I know two families who've done it.
Wow. Talk about the dark side of living simply. I'm sorry the woman is so oppressed that she can't even protect her children. I wonder if social services would intervene if they knew the husband was preventing them from accessing basic needs and adequate care.

The first family sounds delightful and sensible in their approach. I'll bet their kids come out of it with great skills.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,416,699 times
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That's a case where I'd fully support paying for their food stamps. That's pathetic.

As for the OP: if you don't like materialistic, stay out of much of Chittenden County. Bennington County has its issues too. I'd say Essex County in the NEK is the best for someone wanting a "Walden" lifestyle (check out Ferdinand or the surrounding towns as private land is tough to buy in Ferdinand), but be aware, you still have the state taxes to deal with (i.e., property tax) and very few avenues for income. On the plus side, there's not a lot of people around and some incredible nature. I stumbled across two spruce grouse there the last time I camped out up there, which are rare in this state. Also lots of moose, bears and other things, besides a small sampling of the boreal forest to admire.

I honestly think a state like Maine would be better for this, more affordable in the northern parts there.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Vermont
5,439 posts, read 16,826,933 times
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if you are single, I'd say go for it. I imagine for as little as 30k or less you could buy land and put a livable structure on it.

yestermorrow has a tiny home for sale. Buy that, park is somewhere and live.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1136506...oR_8Wx37ykoqVg
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