[chaz longue]

Interesting discussion.

I live in downtown Burlington VT. Is there crime here? Sure there is. But the crime I'm most likely to be aware of tends to be somebody (a college student)breaking the municipal noise ordinance by talking too loud on the way home from the bars after 10 at night. The Burlington PD will come and write you a very expensive ticket for being loud after 10 PM. It's very cool.

There have been some recent crimes on the front pages of the local newspaper. But they are examples of a statistical anomaly rather than a trend. Reading too much into the occasional very sad crime of passion is just an error, in my opinion.

But don't take my word for it. Come visit and talk to people.
I'm a door-locker by constitution. But during the day - I'd be willing to wager more than half the doors on our street are locked. My neighbor keeps trying to get his kids to carry keys so he can lock the door during the day. His family just won't be bothered to carry keys. This is not unusual here.

For those who missed it the last time this was discussed - here's a site which abstracts the FBI uniform crime stats based on census data.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/vtcrime.htm
Here's a quote from the VT page at this site, summarizing some of the data:

"In the year 2000 Vermont had an estimated population of 608,827 which ranked the state as having the 49th in population. For that year the State of Vermont had a total Crime Index of 2,986.9 reported incidents per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 44th highest total Crime Index. For Violent Crime Vermont had a reported incident rate of 113.5 per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 48th highest occurrence for Violent Crime among the states.........."

I hope this helps!

chaz

[deeptrance]

And another thing about crime stats --- crimes vary so much from one street to the next and from one "zone" to another. Vermont is carved up by topography that makes it feel like a collection of separate little kingdoms. Each town, each valley, and each ridge has its own unique character. One cannot say anything in general about the state without noting that it varies dramatically from one place to the next.

The best illustration of this is to visit Montpelier and Barre. They're neighboring towns and couldn't be more different. Montpelier is a bustling hyper-groovy town full of cute shops, coffeehouses, organic everything, lots of "hipsters" of various stripes. Barre is totally blue collar, feels depressing, has no real downtown worthy of note, and probably has a much higher rate of drug abuse and crime.

Was that an elitist paragraph? Yes! And it's sad that we live in a culture where elitism has so much validity. Better education for all and more economic equality would go a long way towards rendering contrasts like the one above obsolete. But I suspect no matter how much opportunity you throw at people, there will always be a segment of the population that congregates in places where watching TV, going to the mall, and getting drunk are all defined as "culture", and who am I to criticize people for making those choices....

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

I can't take the heat. Anything over 80 degrees, and I'm done for.

But I have to admit that Austin is a very nice town. It's been 15 years or more since I was last there, but it's a great city. But next time I go, it'll have to be in the winter.

And again, you sound like my brother. He freaks out when it gets over 80. But he knows he can't call and whine to me if I'm in Austin cuz I'll just blow his stats away with something like "Well, it's only 7 AM here, temperature is 78, heat index is 86...."

He visited me in winter. Definitely the way to go. Fall and spring are wonderful here but if you're planning in advance then you have no guarantee that it won't be 95, even in March. It's highly unlikely but not unheard of. Heck, even in January it sometimes gets up to 90, but I like that because it just adds to the extreme variety of weather we get in the cooler half of the year.

Not that we're like eastern Montana, though --- talk about variety, they can drop 40 degrees in an hour, or suddenly get a blast of heat from the Chinook winds that wipes out their show cover. Crazy! I want to spend a year in the high plains, maybe Chadron Nebraska, someplace pretty but extreme in climate. Just cuz life's too short not to experience the following, from Accuweather's data vault:

Feb. 18th, Chadron's low was -33
Feb. 28th, Chadron's high was 71

A swing of 104 degrees in 10 days --- are you serious??? Man, talk about needing a varied wardrobe....

[VTperson]

Most crimes that are committed in Vermont are done by people for other states. Like MA, NY, NJ ECT. But Vermont is a very safe state the stats from or state can go up to seem high because we have a low population. For example there was a jealous boyfriend this year who was from MA who went on a shooting spree because his girlfriend broke up with him. But even things like this or rare in Vermont. That is because most people have firearms and if that scares you then don’t come. This keeps crime down let say if you’re from another place and you decide to start a shooting spree up here like what just happened in Canada there likely will be an armed citizen who could end that shooting rampage rather quickly. But, even though we had a nut case from MA do some killings in our state the overall murder is low some years less then six for the year. Boston for example will have more killings in a week then our whole state gets in a year. As far as theft goes, most of it is done by kids and they eventually they get caught. Get a dog. Neighbors still look out for one another in Vermont.

[atlantagreg30127]

Entertaining thread... all I can say is I invite any of you who are frightened of Vermont to come down and live in Atlanta for 3 months - you will think Vermont is Mayberry USA regardless of stats. LOL

[Kmommy]

I just got back from a 50 hour trip through Burlington and surrounding areas, and I liked what I saw, and what I heard. My whole trip there I saw 1 car accident (it was raining and the accident seemed minor), and heard sirens only twice. People I talked to gave me overall positive feedback about their lives in VT, and I liked the general vibe of the area.
I currently live in Boston, (I got looks from some people when they saw my licsence plate, but I was prepared..I heard some people don't like "out of towners") and here, I see at least 2 car accidents a day, and sirens every 10 minutes. Most people seem crabby, and they walk around looking like they've smelled something bad.
I am more sure now than I ever was that Vermont is the place for me. I'm very excited to be making my move there!

[sevdie]

Kmommy,

email me, okay?

[grimstuff]

You know, I was getting all concerned about the crime in Burlington too, but once I looked up my city on City Data, I saw my concerns were unfounded. San Luis Obispo's crime index is right about at the national average - about 100 points above Burlington's. And I consider this to be the safest city I've ever lived in. I wouldn't think twice about walking home late at night from downtown, although I wouldn't like the idea of my wife doing that by herself. There are things you have to be cautious about no matter where you are... its just the nature of this world. Most of the crime here in SLO is associated with either college kid's parties (date rape, fights) or the street peddlers who wander around at night and go down by the creek-walk to hang out with all the other speed freaks.

When you see a high statistic it may get you all worried, but we got to realize these are all averages. If you stay away from compromising situations and people, your chances of being affected by the stats is much lower than if you hang out with and around people and neighborhoods that have historically been the source of typified crime.

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by grimstuff

You know, I was getting all concerned about the crime in Burlington too, but once I looked up my city on City Data, I saw my concerns were unfounded.

Data are great, they're free of emotion. Cable news is deriving a lot of its ratings these days from making us feel terrified of everything from bagged spinach (current issues, see Google News or some other source) to any man who is over 20 and single.... or just ANY man, in general!

If you really want to feel unsafe, watch Nancy Grace for a couple nights. Then, as an antidote, read some stats on how likely you are to get injured or die in a car accident vs. getting attacked by a "predator."

In order to keep this post from being deleted for being off-topic, I'll bring it back to crime in VT ---- it's really LOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't worry about it. Instead, worry about driving, smoking, and eating junk food. The raw data show that what cable news obsesses on is sensational, whereas REAL danger lurks in our own ordinary daily behaviors.

[sevdie]

Originally Posted by deeptrance

If you really want to feel unsafe, watch Nancy Grace for a couple nights. Then, as an antidote, read some stats on how likely you are to get injured or die in a car accident vs. getting attacked by a "predator."

Yeah, or watch America's Most Wanted on Saturday Night before you go out on the town. That'll liven up your evening.