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I moved from Houston (2263 miles) to northern NH and thus moved to "even further northern" VT. In a roundabout way they always felt like the same state just "hop across the river". Is it just my "outsider" perception? I think a lot of the same independent views are held by both residents.
Sure the argumentative side would say "tax free vs over taxed". There is NO tax free. Different tax structures work better for your OWN situation. I fare better now because of the property tax situation. Otherwise, I view the residents, both long time and new, as seeking to find a simpler and purer way of life without govt telling you how to live. It was the same in TX when I left. Maybe it's called pride? But basically IS there much difference between the two most northern and smallest states?
I have people ask me all the time and I really don't see a difference. Am I missing something? Ok, other than being able to commute to Boston and drag the fringe over state lines. ....The rest of the state? Not so much.
I have people ask me all the time and I really don't see a difference. Am I missing something? Ok, other than being able to commute to Boston and drag the fringe over state lines. ....The rest of the state? Not so much.
I live in the Upper Valley, and have owned homes on both sides of the river. There really is no difference between the two states, in this small area. I am sure there are places in both states where the differences would be more apparent. There was a study done a few years ago, and the conclusion was that it basically cost the same regardless of what side of the river you live on. Vermont has lower property tax, but has state income tax and sales tax. NH charges a property tax on cars that over 3 or 4 years would come to same amount if you had paid sales tax on the car, and for the same size/value home, I paid almost double in property tax in NH than I do in VT. It all comes to the same in the end.
However, now that I am retired and living on a very limited SS income, I find there is an enormous difference between the two. I pay $60/month for outstanding medical insurance in VT (better than I had through my last employer) and NH had nothing to offer me at my income level. My property tax on my home will be $800 this year instead of the $2700 I was paying, due to the low income; NH, I would not get a break. I checked into a subsidized apartment on the NH side but when I discovered that I would have no health insurance until I am eligible for Medicare, I dropped that idea.
I moved from Houston (2263 miles) to northern NH and thus moved to "even further northern" VT. In a roundabout way they always felt like the same state just "hop across the river". Is it just my "outsider" perception? I think a lot of the same independent views are held by both residents.
Sure the argumentative side would say "tax free vs over taxed". There is NO tax free. Different tax structures work better for your OWN situation. I fare better now because of the property tax situation. Otherwise, I view the residents, both long time and new, as seeking to find a simpler and purer way of life without govt telling you how to live. It was the same in TX when I left. Maybe it's called pride? But basically IS there much difference between the two most northern and smallest states?
I have people ask me all the time and I really don't see a difference. Am I missing something? Ok, other than being able to commute to Boston and drag the fringe over state lines. ....The rest of the state? Not so much.
"My property tax on my home will be $800 this year instead of the $2700 I was paying, due to the low income; NH" I WISH my property taxes were $2700!"
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OK, here is something new. I would like to move to VT. Like everything else, its the job market. I am from L.I. NY My taxes are $6400 per yr. and considered "reasonable". I am in civil service, wife is a nurse.
But like you said, every ones situation and what suites them the best is different no matter where you move to. Sure my housing/taxes would be less in VT. However, my wife would also take a 25%+++++++++ Pay cut.
"My property tax on my home will be $800 this year instead of the $2700 I was paying, due to the low income; NH" I WISH my property taxes were $2700!"
__________________________________________________ ______
OK, here is something new. I would like to move to VT. Like everything else, its the job market. I am from L.I. NY My taxes are $6400 per yr. and considered "reasonable". I am in civil service, wife is a nurse.
But like you said, every ones situation and what suites them the best is different no matter where you move to. Sure my housing/taxes would be less in VT. However, my wife would also take a 25%+++++++++ Pay cut.
Point being, its all relevant.
That's the point many don't understand. I am not singling anyone. People look at what costs are and not the income associated with those costs. It works the same when you are working or if you are retired. If someone makes more money they put more away for retirement. What I mean by this is if you put 10% of your income away for retirement in any state and you make a significant amount more in one state over the other, you will have more money for retirement.
Something discussed in the past has been Vermont's aging society. Vermont's population if aging faster than any other state. We now have the oldest average population in the country. We have been giving tax breaks to older citizens, but this may have to come to an end. There is no way the state can afford to give most of its citizens tax breaks and afford to continue with the programs that are in place or the programs the state wants to initiate. There are a few paths to go down. Raise taxes on the working class, cut programs or raise taxes across the board (giving tax breaks but not as much). We will have to wait and see what happens. The state has realized this issue for the past decade. The initial solution was to bring in younger families to the state, but with a state that relies on service industry for the majority of its jobs, this might not be the ideal path to completely rely on.
OK, here is something new. I would like to move to VT. Like everything else, its the job market. I am from L.I. NY My taxes are $6400 per yr. and considered "reasonable". I am in civil service, wife is a nurse.
Not trying to be a wiseguy, but how about moving to Vermont and getting a really small place. We bought a place less than half the size of our house in Chicago, we figured we'd eventually put an addition on it to make it a "liveable" size. Fast forward a few years later and I could happily live in a smaller place. Our house in Chicago now seems like it was stupidly large for us. My next step is to get rid off all our "stuff". Streamlining feels good.
Now that I look at my old life (big house, long commute, traffic, congestion, strip malls) it feels good to have purged all that.
small place = less purchase price, less taxes, less heating cost, less time cleaning
Not trying to be a wiseguy, but how about moving to Vermont and getting a really small place. We bought a place less than half the size of our house in Chicago, we figured we'd eventually put an addition on it to make it a "liveable" size. Fast forward a few years later and I could happily live in a smaller place. Our house in Chicago now seems like it was stupidly large for us. My next step is to get rid off all our "stuff". Streamlining feels good.
Now that I look at my old life (big house, long commute, traffic, congestion, strip malls) it feels good to have purged all that.
small place = less purchase price, less taxes, less heating cost, less time cleaning
Again, my wife would take a 25%++++++++++ salary decrease (20K+++).
I only need a 3 bed rm ranch, like I live in now. I guess really my point was its all relevant. Sure my housing/taxes would be cheaper. But the salaries are lower too.
Having grown up in VT and after seeing the world, cominbg back to make my home in NH and have a business in VT I see the differences. They are probably tiny compared to differences between northern New England and almost anywhere in the rest of the US.
You'll find the same cantankerous independent Yankee spirit in both states. You'll also find a conservatism that is unlike conservatism in warmer parts of the US. It's basically a fiscal conservatism mixed with horse sense but without the bible thumping aversion to non-traditional lifestyles. If it goes on behind closed doors and doesn't affect them directly, northern New Englanders won't get their panties in a twist over it.
The differences which have been there since as long as I can remember (going back to the 70s) is that Vermont tends to be more progressive, environmentally conscious, and more willing to offer and support social services than NH. VT was one of the first states to have a deposit on cans and bottles, also a ban on billboards. More recently VT has banned ALL lead in indoor plumbing components and is trying to develop a single payer healthcare system. VT also has a self-proclaimed socialist in DC. This has resulted in a perception of the state is being a liberal paradise, in the sense of both attracting moochers and those who din't object to moochers.
NH prides itself on the live free or die slogan. It is one of the few states with no income tax, no helmet law. NH also has the highest per capita number of millionaires of all states. NH is also generally regarded as more friendly to business. John Lynch tried installing a tax on LLCs - it didn't last long. NH is gradually becoming more liberal, but not by design. The proximity of the southeastern corner to the Rt 128 corridor is turning it into a suburb of metropolitan Boston. There are a lot of MA transplants whose heart is still in MA (very much a nanny state) who have only moved to southern NH to escape the high cost of housing near their workplace.
Both states have a north/south divide. In VT, the wealth, population and influence is concentrated in Chittenden County. The southern part of the state might as well not exist as far as Montpeleier is concerned. In NH it's the other way around - the wealth is concentrated in the south.
And no seat belt law for those over eighteen! Live free *and* die!
Excellent post, FrugalYankee.
There's a flip side to that though, sometimes. A good friend of mine during high school only survived a car crash because she did not have a seatbelt on, and landed on the ground nearby. Inside the car, she would have been crushed to death.
There's a flip side to that though, sometimes. A good friend of mine during high school only survived a car crash because she did not have a seatbelt on, and landed on the ground nearby. Inside the car, she would have been crushed to death.
this is just so you.
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